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There Is No Conflict
by: jkelly
date posted: Jul 23, 2007 10:21 PM
He's Holding Me Back
With this line and many other similar ones, Anakin vents his frustration, feeling he needs to be progressing at a faster pace. I don't need to repeat them all here, but if you, gentle readers, have other examples that help illustrate the point please fill in my blanks. We've got a classic situation where the child wants to progress faster than his guardians want him to progress. On the other side, the Sith are coaxing him to indulge in "adult behavoir" kind of like those baddies from Pinocchio.

I don't think that anyone on the Council necessarily disagreed with Anakin; they probably would have to admit they were holding him back. The training provided at the Temple by the Council and the other Masters was specifically designed to slow Anakin's development. Palps was right when he said the Jedi feared Anakin's power (well, the midichlorian count, I suppose).

I think the "slowing down" was part of any Padawan's training, but that it was especially important (in the Council's view) as applied to Anakin. The first reason was fear. That's easy enough -- they were just scared silly about what he might do. Probably not a good idea to give a kid a lot of explosives.

This explains why Luke gains his skills in a hechuva lot less time than Anakin or the normal Padawan. Anakin had over ten years' training before becoming a knight. Other Padawans had decades. Luke had a few days with Ben, some training with blue-ghost Ben over a 3 year period (intermittent, I'd imagine, but no more than 3 years giving Ben the benefit of the doubt) and a few days or weeks with Yoda.

This also explains Vader's comments that, "Obi-Wan has trained you well." Vader probably figured that Luke got a bunch of training before the Battle of Yavin.

The second reason, though, is that the Council believed that slowing down Anakin's growth would provide him the maturity necessary. "Maybe when he gets older, has more experience, he'll be a bit more balanced and he'll do what we think he should be doing to fulfill his role as the Chosen One." By failing to allow him to develop, they probably retarded other areas of his development as well. Giving the Padawans more time, and taking baby steps with their Force sensitivity, probably averted rash decisions and helped to keep the Republic together.

They did have a valid concern. Going a little EU on you all, during the Clone Wars, Palps' argument for giving Anakin a command role is that Anakin is a good fighter. That's just silly. There are a lot of good fighters that would be horrible commanders. It's two different things. This plays on Anakin's desire to "proceed faster" and highlights the differences between the Sith philosophy and the Jedi philosophy.

So, the Jedi were legitimately concerned about Anakin moving foward too quickly but they may not have given him enough room to develop.

Give me a call in ten years to see how I'm coming along with my kids.

comanderbly
That's Impossible. Even for a Computer.
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 7:50 AM
Nice entry.

By failing to allow him to develop, they probably retarded other areas of his development as well.

Exactly. I think the Jedi failed Anakin because they did not look at the problem as how to train Anakin to deal his vast power, and instead approached it as how to train someone to deal with such vast power. Obi-wan was able to watch Luke grow and actually challenge his thinking with words like "that's your uncle talking". With Anakin most of his advice is to simply have faith in the force and ignore his own feelings.
amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 8:45 AM
Finding the right balance of control over those for whose development we're responsible is the most difficult part of parenting, particularly once the padawans break out into that gray area where they want to assume some control themselves. Anakin came into the whole Jedi training thing at precisely that point. At nine, he had spent his entire life knowing he's different, using his differences, however blindly, to his advantage when possible (pod-racing, fixing things), and being loved and praised for those differences by his mother.
amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 8:46 AM
Then, not far from the natural emotional conflicts and hormonal turmoil that is part of humanity, he loses the first Jedi (his "dream job," so to speak) to believe in him (Qui-Gon) and ends up in a rigid system with a fresh teacher in Obi-wan whose own void created by Qui-Gon's death made him vulnerable as well. What a pair!

Enter the Sith, Palpatine, who, as you point out, j, allowed and encouraged Anakin to frolic in his power like the proverbial kid in a candy store, and it's amazing that Anakin stayed "good" as long as he did.

amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 8:47 AM
All of this explains why sometimes the best of parents' children do things that are contrary to everything they are taught, as well as why Anakin, with all of his apparent advantages, still turned to the Dark Side. Sometimes we just can't overcome other influences over our children.

One thing you said did strike me as somewhat contradictory.

the Council believed that slowing down Anakin's growth would provide him the maturity necessary
amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 8:47 AM
I suppose I already know what the "answer" is to this, but to my way of thinking, since Anakin was "taken" at a much older age than younglings typically were and rushed right into the "rank" of padawan, having not grown up as a "Jedi youngling," it makes sense to me that the Jedi Council would have assumed a certain amount of maturity in Anakin and given him credit for it. Clearly they tried to treat Anakin the way they treated their much younger "new recruits," a mistake that cost them dearly. Rigid indeed.

I could go on and on (and on...) on this topic...but I won't!

Nice comment, commanderbly.

This is stuff on my mind, jkelly!

Give me a call in ten years to see how I'm coming along with my kids.

Will do ;)
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 9:19 AM
When Kenobi acts up, I just yell at him and shake me finger:
"Quit harrasing the other cats!" ;)

(Good blog and good comments!) :)



Darth_Hiram
A Journey into The Force
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 9:34 AM
Good entry. The Jedi could simply not keep up with Anakin's ready-made personality. He gave them many clues along the way that his path would eventually lead down the Darkside, but they chose to procrastinate over him, not quite sure how to handle such power ... power they did not groom in him.
vadersgirl33
vadersgirl_reflections
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 10:47 AM
Enjoyed your entry. I think you hit it square on the head with this. The Jedi were afraid of what Anakin would do with his power if he progressed the way Anakin thought he should have progressed. They thought they were doing him a favor by holding him back. Unfortunately, they found out that may not have been the best idea. And one of the reasons he chose the path to the Dark Side.

vadersgirl33
jkthunder
Seven Pieces
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 11:19 AM
Interesting thoughts. I think first and foremost for any Jedi in training, one of the key elements is to learn patience... Patience, you must learn patience as Yoda told even Luke who was on the fast track. Patience was probably even more important in Anakin's case (in contrast to any other padawan) since the Jedi were aware that he had great power, but also much anger and fear. This might have all worked out for the better if it weren't for direct Dark Side influence on Anakin, while he was still in a fragile and volatile state.
  Fish1941
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 11:53 AM
You can examine what went wrong with Anakin all the day long. There was nothing special about him that made him suceptible to the Dark Side. It just happened. He made the wrong choices. Look at Dooku. He probably had a more traditional upbringing than Anakin, yet he also became a Sith Lord. There are no guarantees in life. And this is probably a mistake that all of the major characters had made. They seemed to believe that certain traits or experiences will send one individual down one road or the other. It doesn't work that way. Any Jedi could succumb to his/her negative traits . . . even without becoming a Sith Lord.
JediMelindaWolf
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 12:02 PM
the Council believed that slowing down Anakin's growth would provide him the maturity necessary

IMHO, this is the main reason the Jedi tried to rein in Anakin. The (number) age a person reaches does not make that person mature, experienced. Anakin was so immature in so many ways.

I see this so well in my oldest padawan. She recently reached that magic age - 18 - and was quick to proclaim, "I'm an adult now!" While she is mature for her age, reaching 18 makes one legal (equating, in some circles, adulthood), but does not make one a true adult. (Luckily, my padawan has a sound head on her shoulders. Let's see how that serves her as she heads off to college next month! :O)
JediMelindaWolf
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 12:03 PM
Give me a call in ten years to see how I'm coming along with my kids.


:^O


(I hope all goes well! :D)


MTFBWY :)
Granny-Wan
I Am NOT an Old Fossil!
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 12:41 PM
I've always envisioned the Jedi Masters educated and trained Anakin in the same way they trained anyone else. After getting him caught up on his education, they bumped him to Padawan status and sent him off with Obi-Wan, who of course had seen many faults in his own master and wanted to be perfect.

No one stopped to think that Anakin was different and might have needed a different education. They didn't stop to think that he already HAD attachment issues, and couldn't just stop thinking about those attachments, they should have taught him how to deal with them instead. Perhaps all the Jedi should have been taught to deal with their emotions instead of trying to deny them... but that's another topic. :)

Granny-Wan
I Am NOT an Old Fossil!
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 12:43 PM
Anakin thought he was being held back, but he was made a Knight too soon. He wasn't ready for the responsibilities of command. LIke you said, being a great fighter does not make one a great leader.

Give me a call in ten years to see how I'm coming along with my kids.

Um, I don't want to picture my Grand-Padwans in 10 years... {shudder} One is 6 and the other is pushing 10... B-)
Qui-Tom Servo loves Padme
You Must Unlearn What You Have Learned
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 1:36 PM
Nice entry. As a side note, how much did Palpatine's special brand of encouragement contribute to Anakin's impatience?
  Fish1941
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 2:02 PM
No one stopped to think that Anakin was different and might have needed a different education. They didn't stop to think that he already HAD attachment issues, and couldn't just stop thinking about those attachments, they should have taught him how to deal with them instead.

They all seemed to have attachment issues. Which is probably why they all failed in the end. Granted, characters like Yoda, Obi-Wan and Mace didn't become Sith Lords. But they had failed themselves, just as surely as Anakin had. And just as Padme had. There was nothing special about Anakin that made him more suceptible to his inner darkness than the others.
gold5
I lost Tiree, lost Dutch!..or How I learned to stop worrying and love the Death Star.
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 3:29 PM
As a parent we have hard decisions daily. Really and truly we can't know if the way we handle this or that situation will be postive or negative in the long run. We can only make the one we feel has the best chance of being right and hope for the best outcome. We are blind before it happens. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. The Jedi or the ones left probably regretted many things after the purge. They couldn't cry over those mistakes. Like attachments they let them go and moved forward in making them the galaxy right again.
jkelly
There Is No Conflict
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 6:29 PM
One thing you said did strike me as somewhat contradictory.

the Council believed that slowing down Anakin's growth would provide him the maturity necessary


It is contradictory, isn't it? But isn't that part of what parents do? We try to slow them down to the appropriate pace so they're not overwhelmed and they can mature.

Some commenters may have missed this point. My commentary is not necessarily that the Council was wrong, but that it's a difficult balancing act. The Council's intent was appropriate, but they weren't sure how to deal with Anakin. This added to his fall, but was not the cause of his fall.
  Fish1941
date Posted: Jul 24, 2007 10:38 PM
Like attachments they let them go and moved forward in making them the galaxy right again.


Who said that the Jedi were ultimately responsible for making the galaxy right?
comanderbly
That's Impossible. Even for a Computer.
date Posted: Jul 25, 2007 3:28 PM
My commentary is not necessarily that the Council was wrong, but that it's a difficult balancing act.[/b

Ah ha! No wonder I read it so many times before I commented. That's a really tough one. There are certainly differences in mentoring and parenting, the roles in some cases are very different. The relationships are also very different, in some cases. The key for parent/master is knowing when to guide the student/child and when to let go. As you said its balancing the two.
amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Jul 27, 2007 11:58 AM
It is contradictory, isn't it? But isn't that part of what parents do? We try to slow them down to the appropriate pace so they're not overwhelmed and they can mature.

Are you...agreeing with me to some degree? Wow. Let me process that one.

OK.

:D

Do we try to slow them down, though, or just keep them where they naturally "should" be, not letting them get ahead of themselves? There's a difference.

Anakin was unique, and he wasn't getting ahead of himself. He knew he wanted and needed more; it's the Jedi council who blew it.
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