Hello, you are not signed on.
[ Blogs.starwars.com ]

DrewK
by: karpyshyn
date posted: Dec 28, 2006 11:51 PM  | 
updated: Jan 01, 2007 3:18 AM
Who was the strongest Sith?
Okay, so I was bit dishonest with the title for this blog. Blame it on my own personal dark side. But at least I came clean in the intro.

Before I get into the topic of this blog I have a bit of news. My official web site is up and running at:

www.drewkarpyshyn.com

so come on by and check it out. (I've even hidden a little Easter Egg inside there about the origin of the name of a very popular KOTOR character.)

Now, back to the topic at hand. The fact is, I'm always getting asked who is stronger: Bane, Revan, Vader or the Emperor. I understand the question. As a long time RPG'er I know the allure comparative stats and one-on-one battles between famous figures has over us.

I also recognize that, as someone who has worked on material dealing with both Revan and Bane, people see me as something of an expert (whether I am or not). Unfortunately, I can't really answer this question for you. Not in any definitive way.

For me a character such as Revan or Bane is much more than the sum total of their parts. Let's look at Bane. Throughout my novel you'll see his power wax and wane. It varies with his situation, his state of mind, the circumstances he finds himself in... just like people in real life. Not to over simplify things, but we all have good and bad days. Just because Bane might be stronger than Revan in one encounter doesn't mean he would win every time. Desperation, over confidence and blind luck can sometimes have just as much to do with victory and defeat.

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to say you can't look at someone and say "X is more powerful than Y". Many times that's an easy call. Darth Vader is far more powerful than the generic stormtrooper in the corner. Bane was way more powerful than the typical Sith apprentice on Korriban. But when you compare two figures near the top of the power structure it isn't always clear who will come out on top. If it *was* clear it wouldn't be possible to create dramatic tension in conflict, and I'd be out of a job.

Look at Luke, Vader and the Emperor. In their first conflict Vader defeated Luke. Later, Luke was able to defeat Vader... partly because he had grown in his understanding of the Force, but also because (I believe) Vader couldn't bring himself to unleash his full powers on his son. Does that make him weaker? Yes and no. Theoretically he may have had more power, but he wasn't able to use it so should we count it?

Similarly, we know Vader served the Emperor... but we also know Anakin had the potential to become the most powerful Jedi ever. So how did the Emperor keep Vader in check? Was he more powerful in the Force? Or just more cunning and manipulative? And if he was more cunning, doesn't that count as well? Would you rather be strong in the Force but stupid and gullible? (Not that Vader was stupid... I'm just trying to make a point.)

Measuring relative power in the grand scheme isn't always possible. There are too many mitigating factors to come up with the "right" answer... which is why it's so fun to debate these things on the boards. Everybody has their opinion - even me. But I won't give you mine, because I'm afraid it might come across as an expert telling you the "truth", and I don't want to portray myself in that kind of misleading light.

So there you go - a whole blog dedicated to not answering a question I am commonly asked. Maybe I should go into politics.

  Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 12:17 AM
Relative power? Pfft, the correct answer is Revan. He has cheat codes on his home turf of videogames.

EnableCheats
Invulnerability

And just for good measure he'd probably "givecredits 99999999999". After you kill off Sith Lords from multiple eras whilest maintaing a healthy God-Mode glow... There's really nothing left to do but retire to a life of luxury and space yatching.

:D
  JediITL
The Blog Trooper
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 12:42 AM
It's not about cheats. Bane "BY HIMSELF" is THE strongest Sith ever. Cheats are for vid games we're talkin about SW acutal history.
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 1:00 AM
Very nicely put, Drew!
  Hoppy Har Ghost
The Cormyrean Jedi's Holojournal
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 7:21 AM
Cheats are for vid games we're talkin about SW acutal history.
Yea, thats like playing BF2 with infinite health and calling yourself a great warrior.
Great blog, I've been wondering the same things. You have no idea how many lunch room discussions we have about whose stronger, A, B, C, or X.
  vadersgirl33
vadersgirl_reflections
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 7:36 AM
You pose a great question. Unfortunately, I don't think it can be answered. But it sure is fun to debate. I had such a debate question recently over whether Vader should be forgiven or not. Some said 'Yes' while others said 'No'. They all gave reasons why or why not. Yours is an interesting question. I don't have the answer.

vadersgirl33
  rj_peters
Memos from the Imperial Finance Department
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 8:03 AM
I've even hidden a little Easter Egg inside there about the origin of the name of a very popular KOTOR character.

Interesting origin for my favorite KOTOR character over on Drew's site.

I also love this question in the FAQ: You seem pretty full of yourself. Are all Canadians arrogant jerks?

As Drew says in his answer, all of the Canadians I've personally known have been some of the nicest people ever. Drew seems to have a healthy bit of surliness in him, though. ]:)
  Salam_Oranda
Master Oranda's premonitions
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 8:28 AM
I would have to go with Vader as the strongest sith. After all, he has the most midi-chlorians than anyone. :)
Jedi Master Mina
Another Galaxy, another time
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 10:23 AM
Measuring relative power in the grand scheme isn't always possible. There are too many mitigating factors to come up with the "right" answer...

I could not agree with you more about this statement. But, on the other hand, the movies are "canon", so does that mean everything in the EU is irrelevant and, from a certain point of view, does not take precedent over what is truly canon? Ha, hows that for a run on statement!!

which is why it's so fun to debate these things on the boards.

Debating? Pfft...Just causes heartburn!!

So there you go - a whole blog dedicated to not answering a question I am commonly asked. Maybe I should go into politics.

Woohoo...I'd vote for ya!! :D
  marybrainchild
SidiousSith's Holocron
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 3:27 PM
Oooh... interesting topic!!! Although, I'd have to say between the 4 of them, it'd pretty much be Vader v. Bane & Revan v. Emperor. You're right-there really is no big line that will define winner & loser. It just really depends on who the comparison's between.

So there you go - a whole blog dedicated to not answering a question I am commonly asked. Maybe I should go into politics.

Make that 2 votes!! :D
  darth maul517
Darth Jedi Maul Secura
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 6:59 PM
I have just finished the Darth Bane book today and love it. I would say he was.
  SnoopDarthyDarth
Sith point of view related to real world...
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 8:17 PM
Exar Kun.

Granted, the power he achieved wasnt all natural... but he was able to completely immobilize an entire arena full of Jedi Knights and Masters with a thought!!!

I speak of when he waltzed in there to free his apprentice (Ulic Qel-Droma) and literaly paralyzed every Jedi (hundreds of them) in the place while he strode around preaching at them.

Palpatine, Vader, Bane... they never dreamed of such direct and naked displays of power as that.

but...........
  SnoopDarthyDarth
Sith point of view related to real world...
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 8:25 PM
But...
Thats raw power which, as we saw with Vader, can only take you so far.

Palpatine showed (with im sure a lower midichlorine count then Vader) that being a true genius can potentialy take you much ####her.


So...
Raw power = Exar Kun (not a genius).

Potential power = Vader (never fully learned to use it all).

Realized power = Palpatine (used all his powers and his mind to nearly full potential).
jkthunder
Seven Pieces
date Posted: Dec 29, 2006 8:31 PM
Hard call indeed. Any answer is completely subjective. It's a great discussion to have though. What I've found interesting is that Bane is also considered a "chosen one" in a sense, as is Vader (well, Anakin), albeit in different ways. I'd say Revan was somewhat of a prophecy too, as far as his (her? ;)) ripple effects throughout the eras. Palpatine was the lesser in that area. Sure he was catalyst to a major galactic shift in power, but he seemed to do it under his own enterprise.
  Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements
date Posted: Dec 30, 2006 1:06 AM
Cheats are for vid games we're talkin about SW acutal history.

; it was a joke. I give the same type of sarcastic answer whenever I hear "Who would win in a fight, the Enterprise or a Star Destroyer?": "Well the Enterprise of course, it needs to be in next week's episode".

My real answer would be that the strongest Sith in terms of "who would win in a fight?" would be whomever could cancel out the force powers of the others most effectively, since, as Snoop said, some of them have insanely overpowered "time stop" abillities that the others would need to counter. Since Revan and Bane lived in an era of large numbers of force users, they'd have the advantage.
  Rogueish
W.I.E.R.D.
date Posted: Dec 30, 2006 2:49 AM
I'm glad Exar Kun sneaks in here. What I liked about him was his ability to turn so many Jedi Knights to his side and order them to destroy their own masters. He never did rule the galaxy, but, he was never redeemed and almost got back in on the act 4000 years later.

Now that's power.
  JamesGilmer
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Future
date Posted: Dec 31, 2006 10:14 AM
Everybody has their opinion - even me. But I won't give you mine, because I'm afraid it might come across as an expert telling you the "truth", and I don't want to portray myself in that kind of misleading light.

You're quickly on your way to becoming my favourite of the new SW crowd.

And PoD was a fine novel, loved the changes, and the fleshed out Bane.
Master Clemins
MasterC's soldier of fortune magazine
date Posted: Jan 01, 2007 1:39 PM
ummm i agree Drew when you talk about the top ten most powerful force users or even top 20 (and yes Bane is in there) then it takes alot of things to equal victory than mere RAW force power.

great blog man!

and great website!
hansgirl3
Invoking the Squee
date Posted: Jan 03, 2007 11:11 AM
So there you go - a whole blog dedicated to not answering a question I am commonly asked. Maybe I should go into politics.

Woo-hoo! I'm with ya there!

I agree totally that it's not about who's stronger or better, but in what situation a person finds himself in that determines how he'll react and whether he will come out of it in what particular way. It's all relative. Bane may have handled things completely differently than Vader did, for example ~ I know he would have.

I finished your book in two days flat! I NEVER do that (well, rarely)! I absolutely loved it! I want more!! Fantastic book!! Thanks! :)
  dark lord of me
my mentor taught me everything about the force...even the nature of the dark side
date Posted: Jan 04, 2007 9:23 PM
drew i'm just now reading this blog and discovering you got your web site up,which i'll visit after this.i've said before and i'll say again your my favorite author..and have checked out your other stuff lately.it's gold for sure.drew, if you get the time to read my blog,please do.i never write blogs,for similiar reasons you have stated.matter of fact in my blog i address the fact that who's stronger has alot to do with who's wiser and has more will power,cunning,etc...what a weird day today's been.check out my blog.
  dark lord of me
my mentor taught me everything about the force...even the nature of the dark side
date Posted: Jan 04, 2007 9:26 PM
one thing about the vader fight..in the commentary of "empire" lucas says vader lost alot of his power in the force due to being cut in half.also in the novel of "revenge" as well.so it may be from not lack of trying.
  dark lord of me
my mentor taught me everything about the force...even the nature of the dark side
date Posted: Jan 04, 2007 10:31 PM
i catagorize the sith in 2 groups/before bane's reformations and after.the old sith never could reach the full potentail of the dark side because thay lacked the true nature of it, will power,letting go of pride(it only makes you weak),cunning,patience,ect... the true heart of evil.this led the new sith to discovering new force powers that an old sith could never use or discover.lucas' story of the sith is a philisophical look at the nature of evil. i in many ways was like sidious at one time in my life,thats the reason i have become so intrested in his story the last few years.who does more damage,a person that gets mad and yells,or the person that completely underminds you and don't realize until it's to late.check out my blog
  dark lord of me
my mentor taught me everything about the force...even the nature of the dark side
date Posted: Jan 05, 2007 12:41 AM
the vader fight wasn't from lack of trying he lost because he lost power after being cut in half. not only did the new sith discover more power and techniques,they also amplified old powers by tapping into the dark sides true nature.like force lightning.in sidious fight with yoda he knocks him out, then knocks his saber from his hands.not because he was more powerful in the force,but because new sith powers are stronger than the old.now you will experiance the FULL power of the dark side. sidious was the most powerful because by his time the sith were at their pinnacle.had bane been born in that era who knows.but it was bane that started them down that track.no old sith could destroy a new,they never unlocked it's full potential
  dark lord of me
my mentor taught me everything about the force...even the nature of the dark side
date Posted: Jan 07, 2007 4:09 PM
drew...once again,thanks for the post on my blog.one last thing...hurry up and write something new,so i have something worth reading in the star wars universe. looks like mass effect is gonna be good to
  • Please log in to post comments