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 | Killing is it inhuman? |
If killing is so inhuman, why do humans do it so much. In real life, in fiction, in cartoons comic books, and every other medium of entertainment we enjoy. Star Wars is chock full of killing. Villions, zilllions, and pigillions of people and critters have been murdered in the GFFA along its timeline. People kill, humans kill humans, humans kill everything. It seems that killing is very very human. Some claim to be above killing but, put in the right scenario, they'd be spilling guts like a nice little sith. What seems to be most inhuman these days is living as one with the environment under the laws of nature. Humans step on every other lifeform that "gets in the way" of their way of life including one another. if killing is an inhuman act, we are yet to prove it wrong. I know there are those of you that think killing is wrong, and you are right. But there is a time an place for everything and killing is sometimes the order of the day because it has to be, and if it was inhuman to kill, we wouldnt be reading one anothers thoughts on the subject right now.
Can wait to read the comments on this one.
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http://blogs.starwars.com/Mando-ramser/23 |
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Darth Rex0
So be it....
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 11:04 AM
Can wait to read the comments on this one.
Make that two of us.
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jediholteh
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 11:13 AM
if killing is an inhuman act, we are yet to prove it wrong.
Eh? We do? If I'm not mistaken killing has been proved wrong since Cain killed Able.
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greenandwhitejedi
Bar 66
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 11:22 AM
Killing is part of the survival instinct in a fight-or-flight scenario; it may well ensure the continuation of the killer's genetic lineage, and you don't need an explanation from any religion for that. But no-one should walk around with the intention of killing. No-one should put themselves - or allow themselves to be put - in a situation where killing is, or may be, inevitable, whatever the cause. That is 'inhuman', not in the sense of humans being incapable of it (obviously), but in the sense that killing of that nature has arisen as a result of society and civilisation, and not nature or evolution.
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anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 11:22 AM
It's a tricky question. I think there are lots of layers to a person, but for simplicty's sake I'll say two basic layers the small self and the Higher Self. Both are part of human nature, but lead us in different directions. The small self is like the Sith part, the Higher Self like the Jedi and we each have both in us battling for supremacy. Both sides are capable of destruction, but with very different motivations. I remember reading in the novel ROTJ when Luke kills the Rancor he recognizes that the beast is not evil it is mistreated and in pain. He did what he had to do, but his mind was centered and clear (Higher Self). As opposed to Anakin killing anyone/thing in ROTS (small self)
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Aurin_Starkiller
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 11:29 AM
Hold on my Bible-quoting friends. Remember that even God killed. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that killing is wrong. Murder, however, is a different story. Like a lot of laws in the Bible, it is the motives that are the real determination of right and wrong. Killing out of anger, hate, fear, jealousy, or greed...these are all seen as evil by the majority of people. Killing in self-defense, or as a means of capital punishment, that is an entirely different matter.
Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that killing is a good thing. In a perfect world, it wouldn't exist, and wouldn't be necessary. God didn't design the world to be like it is. All of the horrible reality that is our world is our fault, we screwed up his creation.
GB
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jediholteh
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 11:37 AM
Murder, however, is a different story.
Yes, this is true. Thanks for bringing that up, Aurin_Starkiller. Killing is very major for me; my uncle was shot and killed a while back, and I still don't see the real reason behind it. Even in self-defense, it'd be hard for me to decide what to do. On-the-spot, I'm sure I'd do anything to get away. After it all though, I'd no doubt feel weird about it.
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Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 11:41 AM
Society determines the rightness and wrongness of killing whatever your personal beliefs. You may or may not be for it, believe in it, like it, or care at all, but chances are you, your neighbors, and, more likely, your leaders (religious or political) have already determined what the implications of killing are (be it caused by murder, accident, the devil, or self-defense). Kill or don't, you'll be judged against prevailing law (and its interpretation) for such actions (or inaction) regardless of your beliefs.
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Aurin_Starkiller
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 11:58 AM
I know that if my life were threatened, I would be at a moral crisis. The human part of me would tell me to fight back, to survive. The part of me that has been redeemed, would tell otherwise. Consider the early martyrs as they were fed to lions, and slaughtered by gladiators. With God's power they could have wiped Rome off of the map, much less defended themselves from a death by a beast. But they didn't. They died, their minds on Christ and a prayer on their lips. They died as examples, that the Christian life is not that of selfishness, but giving yourself to a higher cause. They died like Jesus, showing the world that there is a better way. Instead of killing to protect themselves, the martyrs died to show the Romans a better way.
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Aurin_Starkiller
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 11:59 AM
I really, really don't like the 750 character limit. 
God Bless,
May the Force grant you wisdom...
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anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 12:23 PM
jediholtech
I'm sorry to hear about your uncle.
regardless of your beliefs
Yes, but our beliefs also shape the laws, and evolving beliefs will change what laws are on the books. Individual feelings on this do matter.
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jedivnsnator
The Trash Compactor
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 12:34 PM
I really, really don't like the 750 character limit.
Welcome to the club.
Killing...oh boy. This is really dipping into the realm of ethics and morality, and really, the only kind of real answer to this sort of question would be 3 blogs long (as those who have read my 'ethics of cloning' blog so painfully learned...hehe)
Aurin_Starkiller got it right, I think. Killing in and of itself is not what is 'evil', although due to its nature it does carry inherently evil traits. If someone was threatening the life of a little boy, and then attacked him, and I killed the attacker, that's not evil. What's evil is unprovoked killing, or killing out of something other than self-defense or defense of others.
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jedivnsnator
The Trash Compactor
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 12:38 PM
But then...we come to the defenition of 'evil'. If morality is subjective, and there is no truth, how can anything be 'evil'? Or 'good' for that matter? If that's the case, then I have every right to kill someone for any reason I want, the same way I'd kill a bug, or a dog, or a deer. When Humanity is reduced to an animal level (a by-product of evolutionary theory and social Darwinism) then all the rules (or lack thereof) that apply to animals thus applies to humans. This is dangerous thinking, because then, if humans are simply another category in the food chain, would I not then be able to eat humans, as well?
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jedivnsnator
The Trash Compactor
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 12:40 PM
I'd better stop now. If anybody wants to hear the rest of the argument, go ahead and visit my blog and look under favorites. I have a 3 blog series on ethics that the philosipher inside you might enjoy. Be warned: it carries lots of controversial topics and discussions.
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Wampa_Jedi
Jedi Wampa's Playhouse
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 12:47 PM
There are a lot of arguments to be weighed on either side here. I don't believe killing is inhuman, though in many cases it's mostly immoral.
The difference is that killing is obviously QUITE human. We do a lot of it. The questions rise from the motivation and conditions.
Soldiers in uniform kill frequently in combat. This is not morally wrong (in my opinion) because it has a true purpose - killing here protects those who cannot protect themselves as well as one's self (the soldier). It doesn't have to be fair, and, in fact, it's better accomplished if the other side never knows you're there.
(con'td)
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Wampa_Jedi
Jedi Wampa's Playhouse
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 12:49 PM
(cont'd)
On the other hand, if you walk down the street and just pop someone because you don't like the way they have their hair styled, that's quite immoral.
While these are two extremes, it shows that there's no easy answer. The range of conditions that decisions are made under greatly influence the "right or wrong" of that decision.
Well, enough rambling..
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jedivnsnator
The Trash Compactor
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 12:53 PM
if you walk down the street and just pop someone because you don't like the way they have their hair styled, that's quite immoral.
That all depends on what their hair looks like. What if it's really, really bad? Is it still immoral? 
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MandoSniper
Mando'ade and their toys
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:05 PM
Very, very interesting comments on this subject. I find it interesting how religion finds its way into the subject with answers and at the same time is a very guilty party when it comes to the spilling of many many guts over the years. Im not singling any one religion out either. Organized religion has their mitts in just about every war I can think of. Thanks for the input everyone. I hope the comments keep coming, very interesting.
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FAN4YRS
A Rebel's Ramblings
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:08 PM
Religion can't solve anything, only a relationship with God through His Son Jesus Christ.
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Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:11 PM
Yes, but our beliefs also shape the laws, and evolving beliefs will change what laws are on the books. Individual feelings on this do matter.
I don't disagree, it's just that if your particular beliefs don't line up with the society in which you live, it does not relieve you of the consequences that would be imposed. I can believe killing is wrong, but if my nation/state is killing on my behalf, am I not somewhat responsible for those actions? Am I not compromising my personal beliefs in part in favor of a more ordered society? How much should individual feelings matter among a varied group of people...what part does compromise play? Now, let's turn to page 66 in your text books...
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luuke.skywalker
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:13 PM
It looks to me like most of the commenters have missed the main point of the blog entirely. They are ready to jump all over you and say killing is wrong, and murder is wrong, and they are right. You even said so above: I know there are those of you that think killing is wrong, and you are right. But the point of this well-written, concise blog is that, right or wrong, killing is human. Humans kill. Or did I miss it as well?
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MandoSniper
Mando'ade and their toys
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:34 PM
That was my thought on this. Ive had this disscussion a few times here at school and it seems to turn into a heated duel in moralitys and religious beliefs. I just think that no matter what the reasoning is, killing is a human trait. Not only killing one another, but everything else as well. We tend to rank life forms and pick and choose who stays and how goes according to their overall usefullness, including other humans. I just argue that killing is human, not inhuman.
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luuke.skywalker
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:36 PM
How much should individual feelings matter among a varied group of people...what part does compromise play?
Interesting side note... I recently learned in a communications class that people will often be willing to compromise as long as they know their opinions have been heard. Even if they are opposed to the actions ultimately taken, they will hold their peace. "At least I know my voice was heard and considered."
Now, let's turn to page 66 in your text books...
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MandoSniper
Mando'ade and their toys
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:37 PM
cont/
Im just looking at our history as people and coming to that conclusion. Its something that seems to be inherant in societies across the world, over time since as far as we choose to remember. and it seems to be easier for humans the ####her we remove ourselves from the way nature works. Its just an observation nothing more.
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MandoSniper
Mando'ade and their toys
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:37 PM
Ive read some pretty interesting comments though. Thank you all for responding.
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Darth Rex0
So be it....
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:45 PM
I hate to admit that killing is a human trait. There is a very primordial part of us that can see us doing it. Its not easy and even harder to admit. I still think the religious beliefs and morality apply. The simple fact though is how we deal with that emotion of killing. Will we supress it? Will we be outraged by it? Will we give into it? Will we be in a situation (that greenandwhitejedi says we should avoid) that requires us to take that step? Those are the questions that have to be answered by the individual, but I think the meaning of the blog stands. Humans are killers or at least have it in them.
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Kataar
Read, Write, Watch, Enjoy!
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:51 PM
killing is very, very human. and we use that 'inhuman' word a lot. But I think what we usually mean is 'inhumane' which killing, especially brutal, painful, torterous killing is.
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jedivnsnator
The Trash Compactor
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:55 PM
I just argue that killing is human, not inhuman.
Darn. Your baseline is simpler than I had hoped. I read too much into it. 
I agree, in that case, whole-heartedly. Humans kill bugs. Humans kill animals. Humans kill humans. Humans kill. Nobody will deny that.
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ywingempress
Shroud of the Dark Side
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 2:17 PM
Tough question, and I wish I had a good answer. Yes, I think that at some base level, killing is wrong. However, there is a time for it... sometimes it's necessary. When those times are, I'm not sure I can define; and different people will draw the line in different places.
What I find interesting is that only a small percentage of the population is prepared to kill... it's like we're hard-wired to think twice before taking the life of another human, even in situations of self-defense. Most people will kill only after every other option has been tried.
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ywingempress
Shroud of the Dark Side
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 2:18 PM
(cont.)
But at the same time, one can hardly say that killing is "unnatural" or "inhuman", because humans have been killing each other since the beginning of time and that's not going to stop any time soon. In a competitive world, killing is natural. And though most people are adverse to killing intellectually and definitely don't enjoy it, it's relatively easy to condition someone to kill on command. In some ways, the question isn't "what makes people willing to kill?" but is "how do people deal with having killed?" ... killing isn't usually a well-thought out thing and normal people must deal with their feelings after-the-fact.
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ywingempress
Shroud of the Dark Side
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 2:18 PM
(cont.)
I like the parts of Republic Commando: Hard Contact where Etain must come to terms with killing and sending men to their deaths. Eventually she realises that it's kill or be killed, yet she maintains that "the day [she] can accept that without being diminished by it is the day [she's] not fit to be a Jedi" (pg. 223). I think I agree with that sentiment - killing, while sometimes necessary, does not (and should not) empower... it diminishes.
Great blog entry! 
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Wampa_Jedi
Jedi Wampa's Playhouse
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 2:40 PM
I think I agree with that sentiment - killing, while sometimes necessary, does not (and should not) empower... it diminishes.
I don't apply this blanket statement to myself. I served for three years in the US Army, and while I wasn't a front-liner or deployed to combat (such as MandoSniper), I can say that I was trained to pull the trigger without remorse.
If you've ever heard or read interviews with the pilots of the Enola Gay (the plane that dropped the first Bomb), they've been asked if they have regrets or nightmares about what they did. The only answer I've ever heard is "No, why would I?"
(cont'd)
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Wampa_Jedi
Jedi Wampa's Playhouse
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 2:46 PM
Soldiers are asked to kill. It's part of the job description. This is one reason we have an all volunteer army. If it's not something you think you can do, you don't enlist. If you enlist and THEN learn it something you can't do, hopefully it's not on the battlefield and you can walk away.
I won't speak for anyone else, soldier or not, but in these cases, I don't see the death of someone trying to kill me in the same light as a Charles Manson or Timothy McVeigh.
(cont'd)
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Wampa_Jedi
Jedi Wampa's Playhouse
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 2:47 PM
The US Constitution states that you cannot be executed without "due process of the law," meaning that WITH due process, you can be.
Killing is part of human nature. From hunting for food to protecting your family, even the unthinking, unfeeling, and unintentional, it's part and parcel of who we are.
Besides, we all know the REAL point of this blog is that Sniper realized I had the same number of blogs as him and he just wanted to be ahead...
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Darth Rex0
So be it....
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 3:03 PM
the REAL point of this blog is that Sniper realized I had the same number of blogs as him and he just wanted to be ahead...
Ah ha, the truth comes out.
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captainj007
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 3:34 PM
Killing is very human. I would like to go back to anakinside's comment about the layers of personality. There are three, the Limbic, Cortex and Neo-Cortex. Limbic is the basest of emotions and is rooted deep in every single psyche. It is the reason you have dreams about falling then wake up (when we lived in trees we needed that reaction to survive). There are others that we have taken along with us from our inception into humanity. Killing is one of them. How many would kill to protect their family? Now how about the neighbors down the street? Someone you don't even know?
cont.
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captainj007
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 3:36 PM
Killing is just who we are underneath. Watch Natural Born Killers the movie. There are some lines in there that really delve into the baser emotions and why they are necessary. You might be surprised how ambiguous your morals might very well become.
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ywingempress
Shroud of the Dark Side
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date Posted: Apr 25, 2006 5:49 PM
I can say that I was trained to pull the trigger without remorse.
And without that training, most people would not pull the trigger, and definitely not without remorse... that's all I was saying. It's called conditioning, and it's not a bad thing in general (though it can be).
The only answer I've ever heard is "No, why would I?"
Doesn't surprise me in the least. Physical and emotional distance. Which is easier - to push a button that launches an arty strike that kills hundreds, or to stare into the eyes of someone as you stab them to death? All I was saying is that at one level, most humans are adverse to killing other humans, and it takes training and distance to get over that.
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anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
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date Posted: Apr 26, 2006 10:02 AM
I came across this in a hindu poem this morning and thought you might be interested:
If you think this Self can kill
or think that it can be killed,
you do not well understand
reality's subtle ways.
It never was born; coming
to be, it will never not be.
Birthless, primordial, it does not
die when the body dies.
Knowing that it is eternal,
unborn, beyond destruction,
how could you ever kill?
And whom could you kill, Arjuna?
From this POV our ability to kill is something of a grandiose illusion. True destruction is not something humans are powerful enough to accomplish.
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Boba Fett015
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date Posted: Apr 27, 2006 6:10 AM
humans are not as civilized as we like to think (not talking about citys an stuff) killing is a natural thing, every thing kills to survive we just took it to other levels.is there a such thing as right and wrong? or is it just another concept of human thinking? people dont think its "wrong" if an animal does it but if a person does it, it can be "immoral" "evil" "wrong",
the person can be "evil" "insane" "psycotic" but there just giving in to the natural way. im not gonna say its wrong or right, i cant decide wether the reasoning or motive defines it< maybe it does maybe not
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david rey
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 9:29 AM
are we simple humans, animals?
or are we persons, citizens; animals with the capacity of be conscious of our animal condition?
is a Mandalorian, "a brave soldier" (not a fighter), ready to feel the Force and understand (and sense) the difference between the dark and the light side?
killing is so human and natural than expire.
but that isn´t the most important question.
a lightsaber in the wrong hands can be destructive and autodestructive.
p.d. the troopers of oppression and evil haven´t any point of connection with the freedom fighters, except for one "important detail", in a war (a situation of moral chaos), every faction, obviously, kills.
Salud y República.
VIVA LA DEMOCRACIA.
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Jaster_16
Du jah grancha confeeba!
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date Posted: Jul 01, 2007 1:37 AM
And you're then saying humans ain't animals, am I correct?
And you're saying other animals have no feelings and personality?
From a perspective of a non-christian, I think killing is, if in a situation of survival and death, instinct. In a society, killing should be a last resort - never as the first, in a situation of life and death like I said before.
I believe we are part of nature's plan to expand and survive as a species, not as suicidal spiritual beings. That's my view.
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