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 | Mamadala's Lairby: MomOf2YoungPadawan date posted: Jul 27, 2006 5:51 AM | updated: Feb 20, 2008 5:23 PM |

 | It's YODA'S FAULT!!!!! |
"Too old I was," Yoda said. "Too rigid. Too arrogant to see that the old way was not the ONLY way. These Jedi, I trained to become the Jedi who had trained me, long centuries ago - but those ancient Jedi, of a different time they were. Changed, has the galaxy. Changed, the Order did not - because LET it change, I did not."
~ Revenge of the Sith novel, Matthew Stover
Alrighty, then....if some of you have kept up with the recent blog threads lately, you know that I had "joked" about blaming Yoda for Anakin's turn to the dark side, and for the fall of the Jedi Order.
Now that I think about it some more...it actually was - in part - Yoda's fault!!! *ducks as bantha poodoo is being flung my way.*
Now, nothing against Yoda personally....but as you can see from the quote above, he even takes some responsibility for what happened.
Here's a quote from Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, outlining Yoda's thoughts....It was when he was considering why Anakin turned to the dark side. Yoda understood that Anakin was not born to be a Sith, but was made one by his circumstances. Here he is describing to Bail Organa the hope that Luke and Leia offer to the galaxy:
Yoda appeared to have had a change of heart regarding the Temple as providing the best crucible for Force-sensitive beings. The steadfast embrace of a loving family would prove as good, if not better.
Well, better late than never, I suppose.....
So, I said Yoda was a catalyst for this - "in part" - obviously other factors were at work here, too.
...Also lookie at what Padmé said to Anakin in ROTS...
"This war represents a failure to listen."
So here's my theory:
The Jedi Order fell because they were too set in their ways to allow for necessary changes to take place.
No flexibility was afforded to its members, and thus, everything with which the Jedi were involved suffered as well.
Now, I'm not saying that we should abandon tried-and-true methods of doing things (ever hear the phrases "don't reinvent the wheel??" and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?")....however, things change and evolve. If people are not willing to make the needed changes along with it, then bad things can happen.
...Even the tallest of skyscrapers need to be able to sway in the wind....
Imagine what our society would be like if people were not willing to try new approaches to medical treatments and technology? We could very well still be using "bleeding" techniques to rid ourselves of illness, and using an abacus to do math...and none of us would be blogging right now! Sad, eh? Talk about WITHDRAWAL!!
If only the Jedi Order had allowed for things like love and marriage, perhaps Anakin's fall could have been prevented. Nejaa Halcyon was married (secretly), and Ki-Adi Mundi was allowed to be married for species-preservation purposes. They were fine Jedi! I'm sure there were other Jedi who were "attached" to others by love as well, but their situations were not public, either.
When Luke re-built the order, as we all know, he married Mara Jade and had little Ben. Was Luke an "inferior" Jedi because he allowed himself to love, marry and have a child? NOPE!!! My opinion is that he was a much better Jedi and a much better man. The New Jedi Order was stronger and more flexible at the same time.
So, in a nutshell (why do these nutshells keep popping up?!?), that's why I blame Yoda.....sort of...!
(Sorry if I seem "stuck" on the whole marriage/love issue...I'm a woman - whaddaya expect?  )
Thanks, Viagoangelicious for inspiring this Mamlicious blog entry!
Comments? Opinions?
As always, MTFBWY!!!
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http://blogs.starwars.com/MomOf2_SSW/17 |

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Rogueish W.I.E.R.D.
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 6:28 AM
Interesting theory, and one I subscribe to. It's not entirely Yoda's fault, but the whole council's too. Yes, Yoda is the grand master of the Order, so he is more to blame than say Mace Windu or Agen Kolar, but the whole council must sit down once in a while and come up with options for change. Wouldn't they? Thats what governments and corporations do.
When Yoda said "failed I have" he is taking the burden on himself. "Into exile I must go" - is that a self-imposed punishment for causing the Order to end, or is it simply an escapism act to stay clear of thr Emperor? Probably the latter, but maybe a bit of the first option is in there too.
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Rogueish W.I.E.R.D.
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 6:34 AM
Options for Change. This was a move made by the British Government in the early 90s to revamp the British Armed Forces. It led to lots of military redundancies. Imagine a Jedi Options for Change? Jedi redundancies? Hardly. But why did Yoda's Order differ from the Order of Nomi Sunrider? In her time, there were marriages and masters with more than one padawan.
Ok, so there were lots of galactic events that caused things to move on...the Sith War, the war(s) and events that occurred in the KoToR comics and games (of which I know little about), then there was more recently the battles of the Army of Light against the Sith, which lead to the Sith Rule of Two, an entirely different Options for Change for the bad guys.
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usetheforce19 MasterMonkey13
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 6:37 AM
WE NEED MORE BANTHA POODOO!!!!!!!!! No, just joking. I see your point, the Jedi Order needed to adapt, but there are things that shouldn't change in this world.
May the Force be with us all! God bless!
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Rogueish W.I.E.R.D.
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 6:39 AM
And now we have Luke's New Order. He is allowing attachments, he is allowing children. However, without spoiling too much, in Betrayal, he and Mara both allude to what they would both do if Ben was harmed. A thought that made both of them shudder. So maybe Luke doesn't know all the answers. It's funny that after Yoda's Order perished, he changed his view to train the "too old" Luke, in order to change with the times.
Yet Luke had nothing to base his idealisation of how the Order should run, other than a few old records and holocrons that may have advised him. I guess he's made it up as he went along. Needs must.
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Rogueish W.I.E.R.D.
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 6:41 AM
I agree that Yoda was at fault in part. But he felt that "needs must", it was right for that time. Unfortunately, he was wrong.
Thanks for allowing me to use my grey matter for a bit.
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Michelle1968 M68- Star Wars Kid at Heart
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 7:05 AM
I will help you defend the poodoo attack!
Very good there missy! As leader of the council, Yoda had the authority to allow change. Remember in the scene when Yoda is listening to Anakin talk about his fear? Well, he wasn't LISTENING! If he had been he would have realized that The Chosen One was going through something involving someone he loved and fear of loss... Yoda should have been more intuitive and proactive and thought about what this could do to Anakin. He needed to realize that Anakin needed to be protected more. What leads to the dark side, fear of loss? HELLO! That was what Anakin was obviously going through!
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amidalooine The Emotional Galaxy
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 7:43 AM
Lame comment alert: I agree with you...although I wouldn't blame just Yoda. The Jedi Order had to go down.
And, um, that's it. I agree with you!
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viagoangel2 Were Anakin and Padme' really one?
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 8:08 AM
THANKS VIAGOLICIOUS FOR INSPIRING THIS MAMALICIOIUS BLOG ENTRY
 As always it was a pleasure! How was *dinner* last night?
It' all YODA'S FAULT...
Well, ahem...I don't want any POODOO coming this way so .... OK, I agree with the whole council needing to adapt and move on to new ways and ideals. This is why so many jedi members had SECRETS. Too much was forbidden. These jedi were living, breathing, THINKING beings....not ROBOTS/DROIDS....They all need room to grow. Very Good Entry my darling.....ANGELICIOUS P.S. I still think MAMALICIOUS sounds delicious!
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rhett0
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 8:33 AM
And don't forget that the Jedi's inability to change and there strict adherance to an "outdated" code that caused Dooku to leave the order. Giving Palpatine a ready trained apprentice.......Enjoyed the blog
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Boricualrg@aol.com
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 8:46 AM
Very good. I agree. Just goes to show that older beings sometimes do have something to learn from younglings. That's why I'm here. JEDILILY1026[/b] Hope I don't confuse anyone.!!!
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Rogueish W.I.E.R.D.
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 9:07 AM
BTW, for married Jedi, you forgot to mention Nomi Sunrider.
Actually, Nomi wasn't a Jedi when she was married to Andur. It was Andur that was the Jedi. It was only after Andur's murder did Nomi reluctantly agree to train as a Jedi under Master Thon.
Admittedly, she fell in love with Ulic Qel-Droma, but they never married.
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viagoangel2 Were Anakin and Padme' really one?
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 9:47 AM
HEY MO2YP, GOT MORE ON YODA..... THIS IS ALL FROM *SECRETS OF THE JEDI* by Jude Watson........conversation between Obi-wan and Yoda when Obi-wan is confronted of his LOVE for Siri( also a jedi)and wanting * IT * to accepted.
" Sacrafice, the Jedi Order demands, " Yoda said. " No reward for you in it, either, Obi-wan. Support you, we will. CHANGE the rules for you, we will NOT. " Obi-wan cries and shudders.
" Add only this, I will, " Yoda said. " Need you, we do, Obi-wan. "
So how do you like thems apples?  Hope this adds some UMPF...to your theory. ANGEL
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MomOf2YoungPadawan Mamadala's Lair
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 10:01 AM
Thanks for all the great replies-I knew I could count on my fellow bloggers! 
-and thanks for keeping poodoo to a minimum
When Yoda said "failed I have" he is taking the burden on himself. "Into exile I must go" - is that a self-imposed punishment for causing the Order to end...? Yep,Rogueish...I think he realized at that point that things probably could've been different. Also,in the novel,it says that Yoda had to face facts that he just didn't "have it" anymore as a fighter. Thanks for allowing me to use my grey matter for a bit. Happy to oblige,dear!!
I'll reply to more comments later-the Padawans and I have some errands to run,then off to swim lessons. I'll see y'all tonight!! 
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hansgirl3 Invoking the Squee
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 10:35 AM
Great blog, MO2YP!!
You have some wonderful thoughts here and I believe that Yoda, too, knew he had the burden of blame for a lot of what happened, unfortunately. He, at least, took the blame on behalf of the Jedi.
Change is good and a necessary thing. It must be done because it cannot be stopped. The Jedi should have realized this and seen it in Anakin. Sad that they didn't.

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padmeskywalker77 Padme's Legacy
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 10:36 AM
I agree that Yoda had the largest burden to bear with the fall of the Order, but, as others have said, the Council as a whole also shared in that blame. They needed a "wake-up" call to let them know that to remain the same year after year after year was not in their best interest. I know how difficult it can be to accept change...nursing as a whole is not known for embracing change...but change happens. When Anakin went to Yoda about his visions, Yoda should have listened more closely and realized that this young man was deeply troubled by this. However, he used the "same old" wisdom he had imparted for centuries...and look where that got him.
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cbern Omega Squad's 5th member
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 11:16 AM
good blog, mo2yp
i agree with rogueish, it is the whole council's fault
however, i was under the impression the council lost some power to its senior members(yoda, mace) and wasn't as strong as it could be
but for people to blame, i fully blame palpatine (stupid sith......)
yoda was trying to help, palpatine was trying to get anakin to fall
well written blog!
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Shadow_JediX
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 12:23 PM
i still don't understand
was it yoda's fault?
didn't the dark side cloud the future
in aotc he said "he dark side clouds everything, impossible to see the future is"
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Jedi Master Mina Another Galaxy, another time
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 12:57 PM
Its all Yoda's fault
Its all Yoda's fault...
Yoda is not to fully blame for Anakin's fall. There are LOTS of factors, besides the Old Jedi Order and it's restrictions that pulled Anakin down to the dark side. For instance, his obessive love with Padme and his greed for power.
*ahem*...We prefer to throw "tomatoes", not bantha poodoo. However, that will work when there is a shortage of tomatoes.
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spartanclone
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 1:54 PM
Oh i love this blog topic. This is a subject that i have put much thought into. Truly the downfall of the Jedi order and the subsequent downfall of the Chosen One is truly ALL YODA'S FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here is the thing Yoda took Dooku as a padawan who in turn took Qui-Gon as a padawan who in turn took Obi-Wan who in turn took Anakin. The failure of Yoda precipitates down all the way to Anakin. How can you not blame the demise of the Jedi on Yoda......it was his failure with Dooku that allowed the Sith to gain not one but TWO of the most powerful Jedi ever.........The failure of the master leads to the failure of the student.
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spartanclone
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 1:55 PM
There was an excelent Blog the other day asking who is more foolish the fool who leads or the fool who follows.......perhaps that same line of thought should be applied here.
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Shadow_JediX
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 2:14 PM
i still don't get why yoda was at fault
explain?
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anakinside1 Echoes from the Asteroid Field
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 2:55 PM
Great blog, and great comments everyone! I remember reading that when the Council had a decision to make and there was not consensus they went with Yoda's advice. I think that's another point that shows his influence and therefore responsibility. Now I often find myself focusing my frustrations on Yoda, but as HG3 said, he was also willing to accept the blame. Accepting responsibility is, to me, a sign of wisdom, and he was willing to learn from Qui-Gon, and recognized his mistakes, again, signs of true wisdom (unlike the prefab type he dispensed to Anakin at a very crucial moment).
Cbern also makes a good point about the Sith responsibility.
Even so I'd still like one of those I blame Yoda t-shirts
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anakinside1 Echoes from the Asteroid Field
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 2:58 PM
Oh, and notice the distinct lack of poodoo pitching fans. You're really not alone on this one. I love Yoda, I always will, but it's very clear that he is a big part of the fall of Anakin and the Order - you sum it up very well.
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Jedi Arwen Skywalker
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 3:11 PM
He's says some of the Jedi have become arrogant in ROTS doesn't he? He should have looked at himself!
Great blog!
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Green Am I Mudhole? Slimy?! My blog this is!
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 4:24 PM
I agree with that up to a point. But I resent any blog titled "It's YODA'S FAULT!!!!!"
No, seriously, you could be right on a lot of points. Yoda can be a bit narrow-minded. One thing that always bugged me about Yoda (and Mace for that matter) is that he always seems to disagree with Obi-Wan. Think about it:
(Continued)
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Green Am I Mudhole? Slimy?! My blog this is!
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 4:24 PM
TPM: Obi-Wan strongly wanted to train Anakin, but Yoda said no, he was too dangerous.
AOTC: Obi-Wan said that Yoda and Mace were right, Anakin is too arrogant, but they tell him that he must have faith in his padawan.
ROTS: Mace and Yoda had grave doubts about Anakin while Obi-Wan stuck up for him.
ROTJ: Obi-Wan strongly wanted to train Luke, but Yoda was really, really against it.
Funny how that always seems to happen.
Green Am I 
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MomOf2YoungPadawan Mamadala's Lair
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 6:41 PM
Wow - I'm flabbergasted at where to start here!  !!
Yoda should have been more intuitive and proactive I agree, Michelle! Although...it was probably difficult with him saying "the dark side clouds everything, impossible to see the future is", as Shadow_JediX pointed out.
However, being able to see into the future has nothing to do with adapting to current needs. I'm not psychic, but if problems are being caused by something I'm doing, it's a here-and-now problem that should be fixed, and will hopefully impact the future in a positive way....THAT is what Yoda DIDN'T do..!
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MomOf2YoungPadawan Mamadala's Lair
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 6:49 PM
Lame comment alert...no such thing, ami!!! Glad you stopped by
That inflexibility to change the Order as necessary left them sitting ducks for Palpatine
Yup, Qui-Tom....I'm finding lots of answers in Dark Lord right now..that book ROCKS!
"Forget tradition, and instead, try to improve it." Great quote, Gahmah!!
So how do you like thems apples? Good thing it's not poodoo!  Now I need to read Secrets of the Jedi....I had NO IDEA Obi-Wan was ever IN LOVE!!!
Change is good and a necessary thing. It must be done because it cannot be stopped. Nicely said, HG3
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MomOf2YoungPadawan Mamadala's Lair
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 6:54 PM
He used the "same old" wisdom he had imparted for centuries...and look where that got him. So true, PS77!! ...ANd I know what you mean about certain professions being unwilling to change - there are some teachers on my staff who really need to retire because they refuse to use a computer - oye!
I'd still like one of those I blame Yoda t-shirts I'll e-mail ya my idea
We prefer to throw "tomatoes", *Whew*....although poodoo doesn't really scare me....I live on a dairy farm!!
Wow - excellent Obi-Wan connections, Green Am I! What was UP with that??
cbern - you crack me up! Palpy is always your favorite scapegote  !! ...But well-deserved, indeed!!
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Shadow_JediX
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 7:59 PM
could someone please explain why yoda was at fault?
please
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masterjay_em_kay
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date Posted: Jul 27, 2006 10:44 PM
What bugs me about Yoda is that even though he understood this lack of flexibility helped cause the fall of the order, he chose to run and hide alone rather than help the other straggling jedi in the universe. It almost seems like he pouts for 19 years. At least Obi-wan was protecting Luke. Ferus Olin (jedi school drop-out) had the ability to find four or five jedi in just the first four Last of the Jedi books. Oh yeah, and by the way, Yoda also left behind two fellow jedi masters ( Luminara and Quinlan Vos) when he ran from Kashyyyk. They could have been useful.
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Green Am I Mudhole? Slimy?! My blog this is!
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 12:14 AM
could someone please explain why yoda was at fault?
It's hard to sum up in a short sentence or two, and there are lots of different viewpoints, but to me it's because he was too strict, didn't understand him, and like various people have been saying here, he wouldn't embrace any change. But the true individuals who are at fault are Palpatine and Anakin himself.
ROTJ: Obi-Wan strongly wanted to train Luke, but Yoda was really, really against it.
Oops, I meant to say TESB, not ROTJ.
Green Am I
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jedi2sith567
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 6:59 AM
Maybe you just figured out the mystery of the Chosen One. Anakin was meant to destroy the Sith, but also any imbalances of the force. The Jedi were becoming to stagnant and dogmatic, it was hard for the force to flow freely.
Maybe this was why they could not see the events that were unfolding. After Anakin destroys the Sith, Luke sets up his own Jedi Order one that is far more reformed. So when we talk about imbalance we're just talking about the imbalance of the Jedi and Sith. We're talking about everything including things that were going on in the Jedi Order.
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MomOf2YoungPadawan Mamadala's Lair
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 8:00 AM
he chose to run and hide alone rather than help the other straggling jedi in the universe. It almost seems like he pouts for 19 years...Ohhh, such a good point,masterjay_em_kay...I never thought of it that way!! Was it maybe because he was following the retransmitted Jedi beacon after Order 66 that commanded all surviving Jedi to hide???? Hmmm....meditate on this I will...
Excellent arguments, jedi2sith567....well-said!
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Master Andy Luke Skywalker
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 11:29 AM
At least Yoda took some responsibility *Ducks at tomatoes being thrown from the crowd.* Others just stood there and did nothing. What is more important, Yoda learned from his mistakes. He saw that fighting a sith would only make them stronger. He saw how the lack of a home, of feelings, could hurt a jedi and make them fall. He saw that hiding your feelings from the order was not the best way of dealing with them. He saw how fear was the most dangerous feeling. (cont)
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Master Andy Luke Skywalker
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 11:30 AM
This is why he might have spent 23 years hiding in Dagobah. Luke (or Leia) was comming to him for training (depending whom the force brought to him), he always knew that. He just needed to prepare for that change. He had to recreate the ideals of how to train a Jedi, so Luke and the rest of the jedi that would follow would not fall, as the old order did.
Great Blog
Andy Luke
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Green Am I Mudhole? Slimy?! My blog this is!
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 1:46 PM
I agree with Master Andy Luke Skywalker. He did take on a lot of responsibility. And don't forget all of the things he did right! He was quite a Jedi Master, one of the wisest too.
Green Am I
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MomOf2YoungPadawan Mamadala's Lair
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 5:35 PM
Thanks for your insights, MALS and Green Am I...Points very well-taken  !! I do respect Yoda, and yes, he did do a lot of things right - no doubt about that! I appreciate you taking the time to express yourselves  ! MTFBWY!!! 
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Nintendo DS
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 7:46 PM
I agree that it was partially Yoda's fault (  ), however I think that he was more of an indirect, long-term cause, while Obi-wan made more direct mistakes. I guess you could also blame Mace too, since he wanted to kill Sidious without a trial.
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JediAnikin4191981
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 8:29 PM
wow!! What a great blog!! I really do think this theory does have something to do w/ the fall of Anakin.....You're right! In partial it was Yoda's fault for not letting "change" come in..Then again, I guess Yoda didn't change the order just for one jedi (even thought he's the the most powerful and coolest)lol But Padme' and Anakin's love did sometime interfere w/ jedi missions.....Maybe the thought of changing the order crossed Yoda's mind he just thought "hhmmmmm interference this may cause"  Everyone has a little,whether direct or in-direct, effect on the downfall of Anakin....Congrats on front page...Great blog..keep em comin!
JediAnikin4191981
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JediMelindaWolf Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 9:15 PM
Why place blame? Hindsight is always 20/20. Yes, if Yoda had seen the signs in front of him, he may have made some different choices where Anakin was concerned. So might have Obi-wan. So might have Padme.
Ultimately, the only person responsible for what happened to Anakin was Anakin. He was a grown man by the time he turned to the Dark Side. He was weak and naive, and allowed himself to be manipulated by a powerful Sith Lord.
(Even though that is the way I look at Yoda's connection, I do appreciate reading others' viewpoints. They're always interesting!)
MTFBWY
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LightningPower
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date Posted: Jul 28, 2006 9:59 PM
It's an interesting theory and it fits (if you look at all the EU stuff and Luke going on to marry and having children and the same with Han & Leia although Leia learns about the Force), but I have a hard time buying ideas or theories about why something happens in a movie and it's backed up by things stated in the novels or in the EU. It's dangerous meshing both of those together when really, you're pitting ideas from GL against ideas from all of these other authors. It just doesn't seem right putting those together. Shouldn't the novels or the EU, anything NOT written or inspired by GL, be kept separate from everything that is, when discussing the movies, or for that matter, the EU? What is everyone's opinion on this?
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