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Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date posted: Nov 24, 2005 3:03 AM  |  updated: Nov 09, 2007 12:36 PM
Expanded Universe 2.0
What would the Expanded Universe have looked like had the bulk of it been written after all six Star Wars movies came out?

It's a question I can't shake. I love the Expanded Universe, the Star Wars world of spin-off literature, with all its quirks born of various audience and generational desires and publishing practicalities. Bring me your Crystal Stars, Holiday Specials, and Glove of Darth Vaders! The EU's imperfection makes it feel real.

But who doesn't wonder?

Debates rage among fans about whether or not the Expanded Universe should get an overhaul and start all over again, especially now that the prequel trilogy is complete. Personally, I like the optimism behind the idea of building a new, perfect Expanded Universe with only "good" stories told "in the spirit of George Lucas' vision for the completed saga." But experience tells me any such endeavor is doomed pretty quick. It reminds me of when I first bought my DVD player and determined not to let any Hard Targets infiltrate my new movie collection like they did on VHS. Pretty soon, though, I got the Return of the Incredible Hulk as a Christmas gift and Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes to collect on a debt, sinking my dream of the untainted collection. Of course, when the Ewok telemovies are an immanent part of your DVD set, there's no real point in trying, is there?

Here's my quick take on 10 things that would be different if the Expanded Universe had gotten going only after the release of all six Star Wars movies. Some are minor, some are big, but all I think are pretty interesting:


1) The Empire Would Not Have Struck Back

Not after Return of the Jedi, that is. Coruscant would have been taken within days if not hours of the Emperor's defeat, overthrown by its oppressed and freedom loving citizenry. Thrawn, Zsinj, Ysanne Isard and the countless Imperial Warlords would not exist. At least, not right away. The Empire would probably eventually be reintroduced in some reincarnated form, a la the Second Imperium of the Young Jedi Knights series. But this certainly would not happen before...

2) The Galactic Invaders Plotline Would Come First

And only once. The idea of "outsiders" coming to mess things up is a plot device as old as history. Once you clean up the town, and peace and daffodils reign supreme, those no good out-of-towners come to run amok. After the Empire is crushed in Return of the Jedi, you have to have a new enemy. Marvel Comics took this route first, with the one-two punch of the Nagai and their enemy the Tof. Bantam gave us the third version, the dinosaur-like Ssi-ruuk, before the mother of all invasions came from Del Rey in the form of the intractable Yuuzhan Vong.

3) Han And Leia Would Have Gotten Married Much Sooner

Four years after Return of the Jedi? Come on. For all its faults, in trying to marry Han and Leia soon after Episode VI, the Glove of Darth Vader series was truer to our anticipation than the long-overdue wedding of the Courtship of Princess Leia. More significantly...

4) Luke Would Never Have Gotten Married

With the prequel emphasis on non-attachment in Jedi training and the troubles breaking that rule led to for Anakin Skywalker, I don't think Luke would have ended up tying the knot. Though that doesn't mean he and Mara Jade wouldn't have been close. Still, I think it's far more likely that the ascetic, Obi-Wan-like Luke of the Black Fleet Crisis would have been this farmboy's eventual destiny. He may, however, have still had a son or daughter, for some Lone Wolf and Cub style adventures.

5) The Republic Would Only Be A Thousand Years Old

Forget that "over a thousand generations" nonsense Old Ben was talking about. The Jedi may have been around that long, but Palpatine's statement in Attack of the Clones that the Republic has stood for a thousand years would've been the model for the age of the Old Republic, not 25 times that.

6) Neither Boba Fett nor the Emperor Would Have Come Back

This one's iffy, actually. Cool villains have a way of defying death, especially when we don't see the body. Heck, even when the body is chopped in half! (Darth Maul, anyone?) But the bookend nature of the deaths of Boba (mirroring that of his father Jango) and Palpatine (as the fulfillment of the prophecy to bring balance to the Force) would probably give authors and editors pause when thinking of bringing these evildoers back.

7) Luke Would Still Fall To The Dark Side

Or Leia would, but my instincts say Luke. The specter of their heritage is a potential story point too tempting to pass up. Which brings me to...

8) Lumiya Would Still Exist

Or Hethrir. Or Flint, or Tremayne, or some Darth Vader-trained darksider that exemplified the continuing repercussions of Anakin Skywalker's fall to the Dark Side. They are, in effect, Vader's "bad" children, and perfect foils for Luke and Leia.

9) Han and Leia Would Still Have Children

How many is debatable. But Luke would still have trained them in the Force.

10) Chewie Would Not Have Died

But Lando might have. I won't delve into the reasons for this one, but again, that's my instinct. ~ Abel G. Peña

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The list is far from complete. Feel free to continue the list in the comments section, providing reasons for your thoughts.

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  Tresk Im'nel
Beyond the Outer Rim
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 3:50 AM
Wow, interesting blog... :) I'll have to give this some thought, and in a lot of ways I think I prefer the EU the way it is to what you've postulated, but a lot of it still makes sense...

Neat idea. :D And of course there are some who advocate "rebooting" the EU and starting over... *rolls eyes at the thought of the message board arguments that would spark* ;)
  RogueJedi86
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 4:49 AM
Interesting on the reboot of the EU, which I could approve, but with conditions.
Firstly, you'd have to keep the Thrawn Trilogy.
Secondly, you'd have to keep the New Jedi Order.
Those 2 series are the greatest bits of the post-RotJ EU that we have, and I can't imagine the EU without those events at least. Keep those events in, and I'm perfectly fine with you re-doing the EU.
Also, don't kill off Fett(or keep him dead). I don't Karen would appreciate it ;)
NarbFlick
Narb Flick Created Leffingites
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 5:35 AM
Excellent food for thought! I've been thinking for a while now that it would be interesting to reboot the EU, and it's certainly interesting to consider (even though it would most likely be impossible to do)!

One item I'd like to add to your list:

There'd be clones, and lots of 'em


The rehabilitation of the clone troopers/stormtroopers would be definite story fodder. I could see some of them being assimilated into Alliance of Free Planets/New Republic and others having to adjust to civilian life. Either way would make for some interesting yarns.
  Sithhunter123
The melodic line of the saga
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 6:37 AM
ermm, eccellent blog, certainly got me thinking, I would understandd if the EU was redone as there are inconsistances, especially in some of the novels after Return of the Jedi
littleluke59
Wormie's Corner
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 7:32 AM
The EU is not perfect, thats for sure. I would still like it the old way, not making sense to the PT at all. Then I can make my own story with the truth. Its actually quite fun. Anyways, good blog, it got me thinking.
  majorlynch
majorlynch
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 7:51 AM
R2-D2 would be able to talk about his past
With the stuff he has to carry around in his head he must be fit to burst.

There would be attempts to get C2PO's memory back.

Luke would be able to speak to the ghosts of other jedi masters
Anakin would appear to him as a young man or an old man, depending on

More stories about Droid armies

Leia would go to Naboo to find out about her mother
R2-D2 could tell Leia about her mother and Leia would find out about her.

Children would be called younglings
Whats next? "little people".

  majorlynch
majorlynch
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 7:52 AM
Another quick point, the EU is not going to be wiped out.
Even it it was wiped out to "remove inconsistencies".
In 10 years time there would be plenty of new inconsistencies?
What do we do then?
Wipe it out again?

Accept the EU, its better then the Ewok films.
  Faraer
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 7:58 AM
I love a lot of the EU too, but a lot of it just isn't congruent with the films (or seemingly didn't even try to be), so this is a subject that I've considered -- for the purpose, for instance, of running Star Wars roleplaying game campaigns that I could really believe in.
  Faraer
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 7:58 AM
After Episode VI there would be, first of all, a very long peace. The Dark Nest books confirm that Lucas Licensing thinks Star Wars novels are best set in times of war, apeing the movies at the expense of distorting their point: the film saga is a brief interval of war and strife amid centuries of peace, war resuming so quickly is a travesty of Episode VI, and the fact that all successful books aren't war stories shows that peace is just as good a storytelling setting.
  Faraer
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 7:58 AM
Re your numbered points:

1. In GL's Star Wars, Anakin's redemption redeems the cosmos and consequently completely ends the Sith, the Empire and, by at least one comment, evil itself. Bringing the Empire back goes right against the basic story structure: it was and would be a cheap, crass and mythically wrong way to get more Rebels-vs-Empire-style action after the movie period.
  Faraer
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 7:59 AM
2. You do not have to have a new Big Enemy, and all stories shouldn't be galaxy-shaking -- the cosmos has been saved, it shouldn't be threatened again and if it is it requires the most powerful mythic rationale. The most elaborate version of this plot, the New Jedi Order, came about in part to shake up jaded old-EU fans by threatening not just the heroes but the entire Star Wars setup and, by making the YV 'outside the Force', its very nature. It makes less sense on this level to come early in the EU publishing programme; and repeating the Invaders story is very inelegant.
  Faraer
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 7:59 AM
3. GL has said exactly this in one of his few comments about what happens after Episode VI. Though, don't the movies also set Leia up as a future Jedi?

4. Agreed.

5. I'm not sure about this. I read both 'a thousand generations' and 'a thousand years' as poetic formulations rather than durations of profane time. What about George's Republic/Sith backstory in the Episode I novelization, which indicates a Republic older than 1000 years? (And why, in The New Essential Chronology, do the Sith not rule the galaxy for part of the 2000-1000 BBY period, as George has indicated?)
  Faraer
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 7:59 AM
6. No, they shouldn't come back. If you want good (or 'cool') characters and the ones you want to use are dead, make up new ones. We're under no obligation to ape superhero comics.

7. Maybe, though it would be very tricky to tell this story satisfactorily (as I don't think Dark Empire does). But most of the other characters who've turned to the dark side in the EU -- as if it was a relatively normal and trivial occurrence, rather than a cosmos-shaking catastrophe -- would not do so.
  Dren Kre'lar
My Pointless Points of View
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 8:28 AM
I personally like the EU as is.

Besides there is a such thing as retconing which lets us explain away some of the inconsistancies.

Also completely overhauling the EU would be a fan relations nightmare. There are just as many fans who like the EU the way it is, as there are people who dislike it they way it is and want it changed.

Not to mention the people who say that the EU is nothing but fan fiction written by professional authors. ]:)
  majorlynch
majorlynch
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 8:48 AM
Naturally the fans of the EU would buy more EU material, and thus know more about the EU.

The nay-sayers against the EU often haven't bought that much EU material,so who's to say they'd buy some if it was scrapped and remade.

I think the EU creators and publishers would take the opinoin of the current EU fans,who buy EU material, then many EU opposers, who don't make them a cent.
kolkamtay
Jawa Juice
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 11:27 AM
Very interesting!!

I'm an EU noob and thus far I've really enjoyed what I've read. Which book has Chewie die? Is it a good book?

I'm flying on Monday morning and need something to pass my time and I don't feel like spending the money on the new book... paperback is easier to read on a plane anyway!

Any other suggestions? (I like the books about the prequel characters. I've read Approaching Storm, Labyrinth, and the ROTS novelization.)
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 11:30 AM
And of course there are some who advocate "rebooting"

If anything, I'd compare the idea here to an Elseworlds style "what if?" rather than a reboot.

One item I'd like to add to your list:

There'd be clones, and lots of 'em


You're absolutely right, NarbFlick. In fact, this was the 11th point on my list, but I eliminated it to have an even 10. :)

Then I can make my own story with the truth. Its actually quite fun. Anyways, good blog, it got me thinking.

You're welcome. I agree that retconning can be pretty fun.
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 12:18 PM
Nice additions, majorlynch. The more droid armies and "younglings" suggestions I find the most interesting.

Faraer, I agree with many of your points. However, this blog also tries to keep in mind that Star Wars EU is a consumer's market, so a publishing program would always reflect audience desires. Hence the eventual return of the Empire in some form, and the doubt about whether or not Boba and Palp would be resurrected anyway.

(And why, in The New Essential Chronology, do the Sith not rule the galaxy for part of the 2000-1000 BBY period, as George has indicated?)

I think Lucas was speaking in hyperbole to get the point across.

Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 12:27 PM
I'm an EU noob and thus far I've really enjoyed what I've read. Which book has Chewie die? Is it a good book?

That's in the first book of the New Jedi Order series, Vector Prime. Opinions differ, but generally the NJO is considered a more mature take on Star Wars.

Vector Prime is actually one of the cheapest paperbooks around.

In my opinion, A.C. Crispin's Han Solo Trilogy, Timothy Zahn's Thrawn books, and Kevin J. Anderson's Jedi Academy Trilogy are safe bets for the Original Trilogy era. For the Prequel Trilogy era, there are a lot of good Clone Wars novels: Republic Commando: Hard Contact, Shatterpoint, and Yoda: Dark Rendezvous will probably be fun reads.
MasterObi-Wan
My little slice of the GFFA
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 12:40 PM
I love the EU, but I think an "Ultimate" version of the EU would be cool too. It worked for Marvel!

Heck, it even worked for DC, when they introduced the concept of the multiverse waaay back in the 50s and 60s.

Wouldn't it be fascinating to see Luke moving back in to the same Jedi Temple seen in the prequels? The Republic Senate, reconvening in the Senate building? Han and Leia taking up residence on Naboo? Great stuff, waiting to happen.

And there's no reason to scrap the old EU. They could coexist. Sortof the way the "Infinities" comics did. An alternate Star Wars universe. Since the only thing that is cannon is the movies, there's nothing to say that one is "better" than the other.
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 3:11 PM
It does seem like an interesting idea. I think the greatest difference would ultimately be one of degrees and chronology.
  Faraer
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 4:03 PM
Stepping back a bit, some of the things that would have to be decided with a redone EU, as by anyone editing shared-world fiction:

-- How much central control and how much latitude for authors? How are the movies understood, and how closely should the EU emulate them in terms of texture, continuity, mode, and meaning?

-- How do you successfully adapt films -- films with a stark premodern mythical narrative that heavily use visual detail, sound effects, and music (like opera) -- to other media? And, perhaps, to limited categories of those media, such as the commercial novel and its third-person omniscient viewpoint?
  Faraer
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 4:03 PM
-- How do we know what the audience (a) wants and (b) thinks it wants? If Ric Olié is the most popular character, should all the books be about him? Short-term sales vs long-term integrity of the brand/setting?

-- To what degree does the potential readership want to follow specific known characters? How are new characters best conceived and nurtured? How do you balance the appeal of revisiting familiar elements (planets, species) with the need to show a whole galaxy?

-- How crucial is the suspense of not knowing what will happen to a character? This influences how much to stress the post-movie timeline.
  Faraer
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 4:03 PM
Practical problems with SW EU 2: Where do you locate the movie/EU boundary? Would you keep the immediate movie backstory like names of species, origin planets, extras? Would you really want to scrap the large chunk of recent EU that works perfectly or almost perfectly well with the films?
  Arf Maul
We'll Blow Your Planet Up!
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 5:39 PM
The thought that the EU might be totally scrapped and rewritten at some point actually terrifies me. We've invested too much money and effort into it already just to see it all disappear. I for one would much prefer to live with all the imperfections (even Paul and Hollace Davids' Jedi Prince series!) rather than starting from scratch.

Besides, the EU that is currently bridging the gaps between the two trilogies is the coolest EU yet :)

And you would probably have to kiss Ailyn Vel and Halagad Ventor goodbye :p
  Master_Kenobi17
Takin Over For Talon
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 6:52 PM
Hmmm. I don't think that I agree with the Luke/marriage one. I think the readers would infer that the reason why the Jedi fell was that they got complacent, and felt that there was no need for change. They were so emotionless, that they could not see through the dark side to what was really going on. I think emotion sharpens the senses, and thus would have helped the Jedi escape Palpatine's plan. Luke's marriage to Mara would have been okay, because history will repeat itself if it is not learned from. As we saw in the NJO, it nearly did.

Great entry!
  adarjapheth
The Troubles and Travails of the Fan that is -- Me.
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 8:22 PM
Thank you, Master_Kenobi... I was just about to say that. I've even heard or read GL talking about the fall of the Jedi being linked to their complacency, and not getting married cause they're scared of the consequences is pretty darn complacent.

Also, the retcon for the lines about the Republic's lifespan actually make logical sense. The Republic has existed for a thousand generations, but has only stood strong in the Prequels' incarnation for a thousand years. Before that it was a little chaotic.
  adarjapheth
The Troubles and Travails of the Fan that is -- Me.
date Posted: Nov 24, 2005 8:22 PM
I for one love the EU as is and would lose a lot of my interest if it got rebooted. I'd still love Star Wars, but mostly the movies. To me, these stories are real, and to wipe them out would erase the painstaking lengths I've gone to in order to memorize every tiny detail about them. :p I'd have to start all over and it would be a nuisance (probably) not worth the effort. But I'm probably full of it. I'd probably gobble it up with unseen fervor.

And as far as creating a separate universe, a la Marvel's "Ultimate" line, I just don't think it would work, for some reason. I mean, I adore the "Ultimate" comics, but I'm just not sure the concept would translate well.
Sompeetalay
Sompeetalay's Source Blog
date Posted: Nov 25, 2005 3:21 AM
Faraer, you (usually) speak very wise words. I agree with most your comments. I stopped reading post-ROTJ novels when the authors kept on writing things that contradicted the story of Mr. Lucas. So to me the post ROTJ literature is pure 'Infinities'. It can be fun to read, but it has no real value to me.

I do enjoy the novels set between the movies because the authors have to account for what happens in the movies. They cannot invent 'hocus-pocus' stuff. I also do enjoy the spin-offs because Lucas was involved in their creation and they weren't exactly meant to really continue the SW saga. That's why they are called spin-offs (except the CW who follow the timeline).
Sompeetalay
Sompeetalay's Source Blog
date Posted: Nov 25, 2005 3:24 AM
Would you keep the immediate movie backstory like names of species, origin planets, extras? Would you really want to scrap the large chunk of recent EU that works perfectly or almost perfectly well with the films?
< That is something that has been created by LFL Licensing. During the last years everything that is not named in the movies is simply called EU. I just separate Source info from EU. Those are two totally different things. Check out my blog for more :)
  Tresk Im'nel
Beyond the Outer Rim
date Posted: Nov 25, 2005 5:05 AM
If anything, I'd compare the idea here to an Elseworlds style "what if?" rather than a reboot

I know. :) I just meant there are some who do seriously advocate it. I can understand why, but I'm a little too attatched to some parts of the post-ROTJ EU to scrap it. I prefer just retconning as need be to fit. ;) This is an interesting idea, though.

Mind you, the clones and lots of them bit...I'd say the EU fills that criterion anyway... :p ;)
  Tresk Im'nel
Beyond the Outer Rim
date Posted: Nov 25, 2005 5:08 AM
EDIT: Oops, I saw the original context. :8} Sorry... Yes, I agree, there's a lot of story potential there. Hopefully the EU will pick up on that and slip it into continuity somewhere. (They have already added Trooper Able to the continuity, so there's hope...)

I've got to stop posting comments so late, I feel rather silly now. ;) Sorry, Narb. :)
SilverForce
Delusions of Grandeur
date Posted: Nov 25, 2005 9:26 AM
I agree with one of the comments above about how rebooting the EU now would not prevent future inconsistancies anyway. Rebooting now assumes that Lucas is done with the story, and that the 6 movies would be the basis for any other stories. Since the TV shows are in the works, that isn't going to be the case. There will be more aspects of the Star Wars universe revealed in those shows, and it is likely they will invalidate a story element or plot here or there. When that happens, we're back to where we are now.







SilverForce
Delusions of Grandeur
date Posted: Nov 25, 2005 9:26 AM
I think it will be more interesting to see how various appearant inconsistancies are resloved in future works. I like it that the EU stories are approved and there is an attempt to keep continuity through the products (even though it isn't perfect). I'm not a fan of WHAT IF stories. At least Infinities gives some of the more extreme stories a place to be told outside the official story lines.
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 25, 2005 2:27 PM
Besides, the EU that is currently bridging the gaps between the two trilogies is the coolest EU yet

Yup, this era is gonna be pretty cool.

And you would probably have to kiss Ailyn Vel and Halagad Ventor goodbye

::Sniff:: :_|
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 25, 2005 6:03 PM
Good points, Master_Kenobi. Personally, I find the new idea of Jedi getting married to be perfectly reasonable, but I don't think the lack of marriage is the reason the Jedi institution went awry. I don't think the Jedi were emotionless or even necessarily repressed (it wasn't a priesthood, after all). They have friends and companionship.

To clarify: I don't think Luke wouldn't have fallen in love. Qui-Gon was once supposedly in love. But because there would be clearer ideas of what Lucas intended as the philosophy of Jedi, I think Luke's Jedi order would have mirrored that much more closely. We already saw the one-padawan/one-master idea try to get reintegrated in the New Jedi Order.
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 25, 2005 6:12 PM
I can understand why, but I'm a little too attatched to some parts of the post-ROTJ EU to scrap it. I prefer just retconning as need be to fit.

Me too. ;)

Hopefully the EU will pick up on that and slip it into continuity somewhere. (They have already added Trooper Able to the continuity, so there's hope...)

Trooper Able?

It hasn't done too bad as far as clones go. Though I remember Lando being very disgusted at the idea of cloning in the Hand of Thrawn series, IIRC.
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 25, 2005 6:12 PM
I agree with one of the comments above about how rebooting the EU now would not prevent future inconsistancies anyway.

The idea of a reboot at this point is ambitious, but not warranted. The EU is in remarkably good shape, and as other folks have said, the focus is going to be on post-Revenge, pre-A New Hope for the next several years, and the playing field is wide, wide open. :)
jkthunder
Seven Pieces
date Posted: Nov 25, 2005 6:48 PM
the whole idea of rebooting is quite daunting, especially since the PT is tied into older EU somewhat, and newer EU is tied into both the OT and the PT as it developed. ugh! some mess.
  Master_Kenobi17
Takin Over For Talon
date Posted: Nov 26, 2005 7:28 PM
I don't think the lack of marriage is the reason the Jedi institution went awry.

Neither do I. I still think that the emotional black hole that was the Jedi sucked them in from the inside. Any emotions, i.e. from Anakin, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, were put down by the Jedi for fear of change. They feared the dark side, but for good reason. Qui-Gon was emotional, and therefore was not put on the council. Anakin is a special case, being the chosen one, and Obi-Wan pretty much went by the book (except that Siri Tachi thing).

cont'd...
  Master_Kenobi17
Takin Over For Talon
date Posted: Nov 26, 2005 7:28 PM
I have read most of the New Essential Chronology, which I must say is one of the best SW books ever, and there were many Jedi with emotions suppressed by the Jedi. Exar Kun. Ulic-Qel Droma. Count Dooku. Quinlan Vos. The Sunrider family. The Jedi became morose and complacent, which is why I think they fell.
Rainbow Droideka
Aren't you a little short for an egg?
date Posted: Nov 28, 2005 1:58 AM
The idea of a reboot at this point is ambitious, but not warranted. The EU is in remarkably good shape, and as other folks have said, the focus is going to be on post-Revenge, pre-A New Hope for the next several years, and the playing field is wide, wide open.

I agree with that. I also strongly sympathize with some of the earlier commenters in that I'm very attatched to the current EU.
Rainbow Droideka
Aren't you a little short for an egg?
date Posted: Nov 28, 2005 1:58 AM
I also think that starting over would sort of defeat its own purpose - assuming the purpose would be closer continuity with the movies - in that it would be throwing out the status of the old EU in continuity, which would be a much bigger, literal breach than the current (relatively minor and purely thematic, IMO) problems between the movies and the old EU.

But it is interesting to think about what might be different.
CooperTFN
Scotch Tape and Popsicle Sticks
date Posted: Nov 28, 2005 7:27 PM
Not after Return of the Jedi, that is. Coruscant would have been taken within days if not hours of the Emperor's defeat, overthrown by its oppressed and freedom loving citizenry. Thrawn, Zsinj, Ysanne Isard and the countless Imperial Warlords would not exist.

Well, then let's thank God that it was all written when it was, because that would be ridiculous. :p
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 10:37 AM
I have read most of the New Essential Chronology, which I must say is one of the best SW books ever,

I agree, Master_Kenobi. :)

and there were many Jedi with emotions suppressed by the Jedi. Exar Kun. Ulic-Qel Droma. Count Dooku. Quinlan Vos. The Sunrider family. The Jedi became morose and complacent, which is why I think they fell

I'm pretty sure you're onto this, but I'll just point out that the above characters are basically all darksiders, or have had some of the most serious brushes with the dark side that we know about. Probably not a coincidence.

So, let me clarify my original position: repression is a side-effect among Jedi who have not absorbed the Order's teachings appropriately.
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 10:48 AM
in that it would be throwing out the status of the old EU in continuity, which would be a much bigger, literal breach than the current (relatively minor and purely thematic, IMO) problems between the movies and the old EU.

Hey Rainbow. Some of the biggest complaints about the EU are about theme, these days. However, I think in this sense, once you decide to venture beyond the movies in any sense, thematic purity is arguably sacrificed. I don't think you can't have your cake and eat it too in this instance.
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 10:48 AM
Well, then let's thank God that it was all written when it was, because that would be ridiculous.

From the standpoint of realism, you're probably right, Coop. But I think the majority of folks were ready to move on from the Empire and see what the next big thing would be right after Return of the Jedi. However, the SW vacuum after Jedi I think probably made folks nostalgic for all elements of the original trilogy, hence the return of the Empire so prominently in the Bantam publishing era.

That's an off the cuff analysis, of course. ;)
Rainbow Droideka
Aren't you a little short for an egg?
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 9:58 PM
Some of the biggest complaints about the EU are about theme, these days. However, I think in this sense, once you decide to venture beyond the movies in any sense, thematic purity is arguably sacrificed. I don't think you can't have your cake and eat it too in this instance.

I'm a little bit confused, but it sounds like you most likely have a good point... :)
Halagad
Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 11:34 PM
Holy cow, I'm talking in tongues. :p That's what happens when you type fast right before grabbing lunch. That should be, I don't think you CAN have your cake and eat it too in this instance.

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt, Rainbow. ;)
  Master_Kenobi17
Takin Over For Talon
date Posted: Nov 30, 2005 12:03 PM
So, let me clarify my original position: repression is a side-effect among Jedi who have not absorbed the Order's teachings appropriately.

Good point. Also, if the repression works both ways, that means even Master Yoda did not fully absorb the Jedis' teachings. He did not want to change any more than the rest of the Jedi.
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