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Only Sith Deal In Absolutes!
date posted: Aug 19, 2007 11:41 PM  |  updated: Aug 21, 2007 3:00 PM
Lies of the Jedi Masters
Well, we all know that besides the Emperor, Obi-Wan's got the reputation of biggest liar in Star Wars. But who's really the bigger liar, Obi-Wan or Yoda?

It all goes back to 1983 and that fateful little scene in Return of the Jedi in which Luke and Obi-Wan's ghost do a little catching up. "Why didn't you tell me?" Luke's cross-examination begins. "You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."

Luke, of course, is talking about Old Ben's original statement to him in A New Hope: "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father."

Obi-Wan's defense in Return of the Jedi? "Your father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true ... from a certain point of view."

Lots of people cried foul on that one. But Obi-Wan really put himself under the bus more recently (at least, from our point of view) with this doozy to Luke's father Anakin, from Revenge of the Sith:

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!"

Criticism for this Jedi gem mounted quickly, not only because it's a rhetorical trap (the word "only" condemns Obi-Wan's statement itself as an absolute), but because it seems to directly contradict the wisest Jedi Master of em all, in particular Yoda's black and white lesson from The Empire Strikes Back:

"Do or do not," he tells Luke. "There is no try."

Ah, those vaunted, inspirational, uncompromising words.

But hold on a minute. Don't be so quick to put the little green supercentenarian on a pedestal. After all, ain't this the same Jedi Master who purposely deceived Luke upon meeting him, pretending to be dumber than Jar Jar and not the astute warrior Yoda?

Oh, but Yoda's, like, the superest, wisest, most powerfulest Jedi of them all. He gets to do that. Cuz he knows what's right.

Maybe.

But isn't this the same individual who told Luke that fear, anger, and aggression were part of the dark side? Indeed. Yet, isn't this the same Jedi Master who sent chills down our spines when he earlier promised Luke that the boy would know fear in his training under him?

Let me refresh your memory. From The Empire Strikes Back:

"I won't fail you," Luke says. "I'm not afraid."

"Oh, you will be," Yoda replies ominously. "You will be...."

And how about this bit of Yoda wisdom, also from Empire:

"If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

That would be Anakin Skywalker, right Yoda? The guy who became Darth Vader for twenty-odd years, then turned back to the good side by sacrificing his life to kill the evil Emperor and save his son from certain death. That's the example of someone forever consumed by evil you're talking about, right?

Note that Yoda apparently considered this view of the dark side so important, he actually repeats it to Luke again in Return of the Jedi, and this time from his death bed, no less:

"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."

That's a long, long time that "forever." You might even say it's ... absolute.

Now, I know--Yoda couldn't have known that Vader was going to trump the dark side. Difficult to see is the future, right little guy? That's right. Here, take this shiny, little flashlight ... there's a good Jedi Master.

Now for a frightening, irrevocable thought: the chronicled advice of the Jedi Masters, the superheroes of Star Wars, is not fool-proof. We cannot take their words at face value, or at least, we cannot be so naīve as to think we can convert their words into hard and fast rules--that is, into absolutes. If we postulate the infallibility of the Jedi Masters (and there is ample reason not to), we have to at least confine their advice to the context in which they give it.

Only, what good is it to follow their advice then?

Well, that's just it. We're not meant to follow their advice. We're meant to understand the lesson they were trying to convey at the time they spoke--that is, the meaning of what they were, yes, trying to say.

So in Empire, it's not, "Do or do not. There is no try." It's, "Do or do not. This time, there is no try, Luke, because you have to learn not to be such a wuss and give up so easily!"

And "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" does not mean that Jedi don't also make absolute statements, but that, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes hastily drawn while in a state of anger, despair, and selfishness."

Oh, you mean I have to interpret this stuff, now? Well, F all that. That's too hard.

Well, that is why you fail, eh?

So Jedi lie, Jedi deceive, and Jedi misjudge, is that it? Well, hold on a minute. It's not that simple. Let's say that Jedi Masters contradict themselves. Is that so wrong?

According to legend, a sneaky trick for helping Buddhists attain enlightenment is said to be to reply to a Nirvana-seeker's question with nonsense; in trying to make sense of the answer, the questioner creates a mind-expanding analogy or bridge between two unrelated concepts, thereby clinching Bliss. Alternately, let's take a look at The Guide of the Perplexed by Maimonides, the preeminent Jewish thinker of the Middle Ages, which reveals that deception may be a fundamental tool of the sage for helping pupils to reach a greater state of understanding:

"Contradictions or inconsistencies may be found in a book through any one of seven causes.... The fifth cause is the exigencies of method in teaching and explaining. It may happen that an involved and abstruse point has to be mentioned by way of introduction to the treatment of an easily understood subject which is quite properly discussed before that other one, because one should always proceed from the easier to the more difficult. The teacher must then rely on some superficial and crude method of explaining the point in question, without trying to expound it in full, and leave it to the imagination of his audience to understand of it what must be understood for the present. In the proper place he can then treat that more involved matter in full and bring out its true meaning."

In plain English, that means that sometimes your Padawans aren't yet smart enough or experienced enough to absorb certain facts. So, you tell em the half of the truth they are ready to accept, letting it seep in so that they start deriving the logical conclusions from that fact themselves, thus helping them to prepare themselves for the second half of the truth.

Sounds tricky, we say.

Indeed it is. Nobody ever said being a Jedi Master was easy. Just ask Obi-Wan.

Here's another one from good ol' Maimonides:

"The vulgar [that's you and me--ed., Abel] must however not be allowed under any circumstances to become aware of the contradiction of these premises, and the author [that's Maimonides--ed., Abel] will therefore at times adopt every possible means to camouflage it."

You mean, he's saying our teachers should hide things from us? Oh, the humanity! Oh, the disillusionment!

Now, remember in Return of the Jedi how Luke calls out Yoda for hiding the fact that Vader is his father?

"Is Darth Vader my father?" Luke asks.

"Your father he is," Yoda admits. Then, "Unexpected this is, and unfortunate."

"Unfortunate that I know the truth?" Luke yells.

"No," Yoda says. That part's fine, actually ... because Luke's old enough to know camouflage and half-truths are the name of wisdom's game.

We can now return to the most notorious lie of the Jedi Masters. Again, from Return of the Jedi:

"So, what I told you was true, from a certain point of view..." Obi-Wan says. "Luke you will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

Among Return of the Jedi's many towering lessons, and as the culmination of the Star Wars saga there are many, this is one we should make light of at our moral peril, unpalatable though it is. It is, at last, the confession of inevitable human agency. As Obi-Wan now unpacks his original statement about absolutes, laying it plain in all its ugly glory, a Jedi Master admits to his pupil what Maimonides does: that if the circumstances call for it, in a Jedi Master's best judgment, he will lie to you. Lie to you! It's the most fundamental form of betrayal.

Now our confidence in the Jedi must disintegrate ... save that here is a Jedi Master, appointed guardian of peace and justice, not only admitting his dishonesty, but explaining it--almost like another lesson. There's something extraordinary in this, almost overwhelming, in its pitiful and contrary nature. How can we ever believe Old Ben again, or rather, how can we ever trust him again, anything he ever said, this deceptive, fallible man? How can we ever trust anyone again--anyone except ourselves? Anyone except myself....

Now we've taken the second painful step into that inconceivably large, sometimes lonely world. ~ Abel "Gautama" Peņa

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Rainbow Droideka
Aren't you a little short for an egg?
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 4:10 AM
This is easily the most complete and useful analysis of Jedi wisdom that I've ever read (though admittedly, I've read fairly few). I mean, as far as how (or whether) we should interpret the words of the Masters. It sometimes seems like we, as fans, tend to, well, deal in absolutes, falling back on the too easy "These are great, wise Jedi Masters, take it to heart!" or over-reacting to the flaws with the too simple "Obi-Wan was a liar" or "Yoda was wrong." I've struggled with both of these, and eventually drifted away from the absolutes, but I've never put quite so much thought into it. I have a much better idea now of how I think I should approach the things the Jedi say.
Rainbow Droideka
Aren't you a little short for an egg?
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 4:11 AM
How can we ever believe Old Ben again, or rather, how can we ever trust him again, anything he ever said, this deceptive, fallible man?

It seems to me though that our trust is, in this case, independent of Obi-Wan's honesty. If he is truly lying because he believes it's the best thing for Luke's own good, than we can still trust him, because he has Luke's best interest in mind. Lying to Luke wasn't a betrayal, but completely the opposite - it was an act of faithfulness, faithfulness to Obi-Wan's best judgement of Luke's own good, whether it was really the right thing to do or not.

Abel "Gautama" Peņa

Nice. :D
Hedec Ga
War Journal of Hedec Ga
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 6:58 AM
Very insightful. In regards to just the Star Wars aspect of it, I think there is a difference between what Yoda did and what Obi-Wan did that is reflective in their hearts. Yoda told Luke that he would have to CONFRONT Vader. That he would have to face that dark part of his past and his own nature. What he did in that confrontation would be left up to him.
Hedec Ga
War Journal of Hedec Ga
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 7:00 AM
What Obi-Wan told Luke, however, was that he would have to KILL Vader and when Luke says he can't do that, he lays the guilt trip and says, "Then the Emperor has already won". Both Jedi Masters used deception to guide Luke, but, ultimately, I think Yoda had more faith that Vader could be redeemed. Obi-Wan thought the best way was just to finish what he started on Mustufar. Yoda said that the dark side would dominate your destiny, and I think any reformed dark-sider would agree. It's always there, reminding you of past mistakes. Doesn't mean that you have to be dark forever, though. Does it?
Hedec Ga
War Journal of Hedec Ga
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 7:01 AM
If I murdered someone, that would always be a part of my life, always "dominating" me in the fact that I couldn't move on in life and forget what had happened. Whereas someone who had never done that, would never be burdened by that. Would never have to live with that. Just a thought.

Again, good blog.
The Stooge
Star Wars Joke-A-Day
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 7:25 AM
Dude, that was terrific. Beautiful take on that crucial conversation in ROTJ -- and your blog title as well! It works perfectly with the rest of Yoda's rebuke, that Luke "rushed to face him... that incomplete was your training." Clearly, Yoda agreed with Obi-Wan (and Jack Nicholson), that Luke couldn't handle the truth.

Again, really, really well done.
  vadersgirl33
vadersgirl_reflections
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 8:25 AM
I have to agree. Your analysis sums up how the Jedi deal with such things. Certain things in Lukes life could not be handled by him at certain times in his life until he was ready. Ergo, the lies. I could understand the lies, after watching the PT movies, but it didn't mean I liked it. If Luke had known the truth from the start, the saga would not have ended the way it did.
Very good blog, and very well done!!!

vadersgirl33
Darth_Hiram
A Journey into The Force
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 9:37 AM
Really great entry. The way in which Yoda and Ben handled Luke's training was much the same as how they ran the Jedi Order of old. They were untrusting of the outcome that could happen but yet wanted others to trust them. The fact that they lied to Luke was to hide whatever remnants remained of the Old Republic Jedi and surface the truth in due time. They wanted Luke to trust them through whatever means possible, including deceiving him, to achieve their goal of bringing down the Empire.
  Granny-Wan
I Am NOT an Old Fossil!
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 10:18 AM
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.... and the Jedi (the infamous Jedi Code). But the Jedi thrive on wisdom, and wisdom comes from interpreting the facts from "a certain point of view".

Were the Jedi liars? No. Did they have good intentions? Yes. (And the road to a Corellian Hell is paved with good intentions, as we know. ; )

Why Luke didn't want to kill Vader was always a mystery to me, it's not like he was ever a real parent to Luke... and he was so evil. Killing him would have been doing him a favor.

Oh, you mean I have to interpret this stuff, now? Well, F all that. That's too hard.

Well, that is why you fail, eh?


Great entry, Abel.
bonniegrrl
Droids Just Wanna Have Fun
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 12:22 PM
nice post...
making this the blog of the day!
;)
JMMC
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 2:33 PM
As usual, Abel, your analysis of these things go deeper than most people's...
I'm not a hater of ROTJ, but I find more flaws in the story telling then the silliness of the Ewoks and Jabba's palace. If you look closely, there's some hidden depth that I don't think the director brought out very well, or the writing didn't convey it. I think Obi-Wan in Yoda were sort of "broken" by what happened to Anakin and the Jedi. Their whole world was destroyed right under their noses, and by the kid they both trusted. They both likely blame themselves. When Obi-Wan says "I have failed you, Anakin. I have failed you," he's putting of the blame on himself. He then spends the next 20 yrs like a monk. Maybe he feels he deserves it. It's his penance.
JMMC
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 2:38 PM
Yoda may be as "broken" as Obi-Wan. Look how quickly he dismisses Luke. He sounds like he's convincing himself when he says Luke's too old. And most telling is the fact that both Jedi Masters completely gave up on Anakin, believing he could never be turned back. Only Luke had hope that there was good in him. He proved them both wrong, not because they were liars, but because they'd been so affected by what happened. Only Obi-Wan clung to the hope that Luke could stop the Sith, and maybe even redeem Obi-Wan himself.

I still think it's no coincidence that as Padme spoke her last words claiming there was still good in Anakin, Luke was right there in Obi-Wan's arms. Maybe even as a baby, he somehow remembered that feeling.
  the fragrant wookiee
The Dark Side Databank
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 3:53 PM
I like to think that desperation is what leads to Obi-Wan and Yoda's treatment of Luke.

They've seen everything they believed in and loved (don't get me started on that little hipocrisy) destroyed and have spent two decades living as hermits, probably with despair beginning to set in.
So, when a new hope arises they decide to use any means necessary to see that it wins the day for them. "That boy is our last hope".
  the fragrant wookiee
The Dark Side Databank
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 3:56 PM
They were basically forging Luke into a weapon against the Sith; that which they'd hoped Anakin would be.
They seem to have decided that the destruction of Vader and the Emperor is more important than Luke himself. In this cold, compassionless calculation they're probably closer to the Sith themselves than they'd like to think.
So, they don't tell him about his father as it could cause indecision (Vader uses the revelation to just that purpose) and to counter Luke's fear of the power of the Sith Lords, they give him an ultimatum; 'Do or do not'. Basically, destroy the Sith or die.

I think it is in choosing to redeem Vader that Luke proves he has become a better Jedi than either of his mentors were in their later years.
Master Ki-Aaron-Mundi
I was a Teenage Jedi
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 4:53 PM
Great blog, Mr. Pena, and great comments, all--even more insight is to be found there.

So in Empire, it's not, "Do or do not. There is no try." It's, "Do or do not. This time, there is no try, Luke, because you have to learn not to be such a wuss and give up so easily!"
And it's, "Once you, Luke, start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."

The big question is, are these guys right? I can see how lying to Luke serves their purpose, but does that make it morally acceptable and/or truly the best option? Vadersgirl33 was right when she said "If Luke had known the truth from the start, the saga would not have ended the way it did." But is that ending necessarily worse?
jedilily1026
Years Matter Not (Gone Crazy...Be Back Soon)
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 5:16 PM
As an "older" person I understand Obi-Wan and Yoda's logic.

For example, my grown children ask me questions about the past that I can't answer straight out...I spoonfeed it to them. I don't lie...I just give it to them according to their understanding. There are certain situations and happenings in life that cannot be blurted out as it happened!

Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."

This is something I would tell my children. He's just trying to get his point across and the point is The Dark Side is BAD.

Very interesting entry Mr Pena. I can't put that "thingy" on top of the n.


:D :D
Rainbow Droideka
Aren't you a little short for an egg?
date Posted: Aug 20, 2007 7:50 PM
I still think it's no coincidence that as Padme spoke her last words claiming there was still good in Anakin, Luke was right there in Obi-Wan's arms.

Great insight, JMMC! I'd never thought of that.

Very interesting entry Mr Pena. I can't put that "thingy" on top of the n.

I just use copy and paste. :D
  Lightsout24
Ramblings from the Corellian sector...
date Posted: Aug 26, 2007 7:22 PM
very useful blog. although we must recognize that these are only movies and George Lucas cant keep everything strait in his head. you have to cut him breaks on some things that slip his mind. after all he is a very busy man who during the making of the film had a thousand things going through his head.


overall great blog and great insight thank you.:D
  the_wookiee_has_no_pants
Pantless Wookiee
date Posted: Aug 28, 2007 1:38 AM
I wonder how many pants have been on fire throughout the history of the Order....
RyanKaufman
Look, sir! Zombies!
date Posted: Aug 28, 2007 5:43 PM
I know this isn't a popular viewpoint, but it's very difficult to rectify the philosophies of the various films, because they were written by different people with different agendas. The Empire Strikes Back Annotated screenplay goes into depth examining Kirshner and Kasdan's interest in Buddhism and Zen. Hence Yoda's very Buddha-like pronouncements. THIS is the version of the Force that I prefer.

BTW, Yoda's "deception" of Luke on their first meeting is a very Zen master-like thing to do. Essentially he is illuminating the greater and deeper truth of Luke's immaturity and impatience via the "dumb creature" act. Ultimately, Yoda's identity isn't important-- but Luke's dark side is.
  lovelucas
date Posted: Sep 01, 2007 2:57 PM
I have a headache....
and my degree is in history with a dabbling of philosophy and I STILL have a headache.


but that's because I am trying to think this through...
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