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Idealistic Crusade

by: Jedi Temple Acolyte

date posted: Apr 21, 2008 8:15 PM | updated: Apr 22, 2008 5:49 AM

A Response to Zam-Eli

In this blog, Zam-Eli invites us to think more deeply about the Jedi religion on-screen, and to determine whether it could or should be applicable to real life. This blogger encouraged me to organize my thoughts, and I am thankful for the inspiration.

The first question that comes to my mind is whether the Jedi practice a religion in the first place. Tarkin seems to think so, but what experience does he have? We never see the Jedi worshipping the Force or the midi-chlorians. It has always seemed to me that the Jedi Order is a purely philosophical organization, made up of Force-sensitive beings to be sure, but with no greater purpose than to secure peace and justice in the galaxy. Those are noble intentions indeed, but do they qualify as a religion if a form of deity is not venerated?

Qui-Gon hinted that the Jedi might be appreciative of their relationship with the midi-chlorians, but there is nothing to suggest that the Jedi worship the life-forms. Yoda takes this a bit further in The Empire Strikes Back when he gets emotional about the Force-creating life around him, yet is he worshipping life? He obviously respects life, in himself and in every form of life throughout the galaxy. It is because of this belief, that all life is valuable, that he determines to serve and protect it. But that remains more a philosophical ideal than a command from a deity.

Of course, Yoda mentions faith in Revenge of the Sith; that Darth Sidious' faith in the dark side might be misplaced. However, how does his faith in the Force differ from Obi-Wan's faith in Anakin? The Force can be manipulated, commanded, just as Anakin was deceived by a lie. How can the Force then be considered a god? The midi-chlorians create life, but what creates midi-chlorians? In any case, the Jedi don't worship them. They commune with them perhaps, but do they worship and obey them? If they do, I'm not sure how we could transmit this religion in its fullest form into the real world.

One can admire the Jedi Code and seek to live up to it, but when things inevitably go wrong and we become arrogant or "too unpredictable", who can we go to for help? Not the midi-chlorians, that's for sure. In the end, our god becomes ourself. Like the Sith, thinking inward only about ourselves, we cannot transcend our nature on our own. With no god to commune with, how can the Jedi "religion" be anything more than a set of values?

http://blogs.starwars.com/acolyteblog/23

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Granny-Wan
I Am NOT an Old Fossil!

date Posted: Apr 21, 2008 8:33 PM

You're right, the Jedi did not practice a religion. They used the Force, they served the public, the allowed the Force to guide them.

It was only 20 years of Imperial propoganda that turned it into the "religion" that Tarkin and Motti spoke of.

The midi-chlorians only produced life when manipulated by the dark side powers of Darht Plagieous... which makes one think that was a bad thing to do!

JawaJoey
Return of the Jawa

date Posted: Apr 21, 2008 9:50 PM

True, the Jedi do not worship or pray to anything. If those are required in your definition of Religion (which is entirely reasonable), then no, the Jedi do not have a religion.

But I don't think you can dismiss the Jedi way as an applicable mindset simply because it doesn't qualify as a religion. After all, what's the point of religion but to provide a set of values?

I don't actually think the Jedi way IS a great philosophy for people to by in general, but I think it's a great topic of discussion, and I'm very glad that Zam-Eli brought it up. It deserves more than dismissal by the definition of religion, though.

	cowboy_11c Musings from the Shadowlands
date Posted: Apr 22, 2008 1:50 AM They do seem more along the lines of a warrior-philosopher than monks don't they? Although there could be some parrellels drawn between them and some real martial artists/monks, such as Shoalin. All in all, great point. I never really thought of it like this.

	usetheforce19 MasterMonkey13
date Posted: Apr 22, 2008 6:05 AM I see your point. The Jedi weren't a religion, rather, a group of special people using their powers to help the defenseless. I think that the Jedi of the movies weren't in a religion, however...

	The Stooge Star Wars Joke-A-Day
date Posted: Apr 22, 2008 2:50 PM I think it was a shift in attitude, perhaps. The PT clearly sees the Jedi order as more of a religion -- constantly meditating, in a temple, believing in prophesy, etc. But this wasn't how the Jedi acted in the OT. Maybe, as an in-universe explanation, Yoda and Obi-Wan simply changed their perspective during their two-decade exile.

	Jedi Temple Acolyte Idealistic Crusade
date Posted: Apr 22, 2008 4:28 PM The midi-chlorians only produced life when manipulated by the dark side powers of Darht Plagieous... which makes one think that was a bad thing to do! You're right. What was I thinking? Well, it was late and I didn't really think everything through. Hopefully, I will learn my lesson.

Jedi Temple Acolyte
Idealistic Crusade

date Posted: Apr 22, 2008 4:52 PM

I don't think you can dismiss the Jedi way as an applicable mindset simply because it doesn't qualify as a religion. After all, what's the point of religion but to provide a set of values?

That's a good point. I agree that the Jedi philosophy can be applied to real life, and that followers of it could be considered people of goodwill. I'm not denying that at all. I would only add that, in my experience, a self-oriented religion leads only to despair. By self-oriented I don't mean that one is self-serving, but rather that the concentration always begins and ends from within. And what is the worth of the interior person left to its own devices? At least Buddhists have someone to commune with. Jedi don't have that.

	acegrl45 Always in motion is the future
date Posted: Apr 22, 2008 5:02 PM I loved this entry. I, too, have often thought about this topic as well. I personally don't think anyone should try to live by the Jedi Code primarily because of Anakin's problems with it in AotC. I think it restricts you a lot. Good entry though.

Jedi Temple Acolyte
Idealistic Crusade

date Posted: Apr 22, 2008 5:10 PM

I think it was a shift in attitude, perhaps. The PT clearly sees the Jedi order as more of a religion -- constantly meditating, in a temple, believing in prophesy, etc. But this wasn't how the Jedi acted in the OT. Maybe, as an in-universe explanation, Yoda and Obi-Wan simply changed their perspective during their two-decade exile.

Very good points. But I still wonder if the Jedi viewed the midi-chlorians as gods, even if they did listen for the voices by quieting their minds. If anything, that would seem like the personification of "living together for mutual advantage" -- a cooperation rather than a spiritual communion.

	Jedi Temple Acolyte Idealistic Crusade
date Posted: Apr 22, 2008 5:35 PM This leads me to think, was Anakin obeying midi-chlorians when he turned to the dark side? Is that part of the religion a lie, or are there good and evil gods fighting each other for power? Thanks for confusing me.

Darth_Hiram
A Journey into The Force

date Posted: Apr 22, 2008 8:40 PM

Great entry! I agree that being Jedi is more of a philosophy, even in the movies. It's a philosophy of doing the right thing when the time comes to act. But they also serve the Force as a kind of god to them ... an energy that controls many things and whose will they must serve (according to some Jedi). It throws a bit of a hydrospanner into the workings of whether it's a religion or not, but I think that they only live to serve the good of the galaxy, and to use the Force to try and instill peace and harmony.

Jedi Temple Acolyte
Idealistic Crusade

date Posted: Apr 23, 2008 5:52 AM

But they also serve the Force as a kind of god to them ... an energy that controls many things and whose will they must serve (according to some Jedi).

I can't argue with that. They do submit themselves to the will of the Force, that's true. Personally, I have a hard time considering it a religion from the Judeo-Christian point of view. But I guess if we really wanted to look for it, the Jedi religion might be a variant covenant relationship. Even though there are countless midi-chlorians, I suppose they could all be united in one will. Thanks for stopping by, Darth Hiram.

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