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The Jundland Wastes Journal
date posted: Aug 07, 2006 3:41 AM  |  updated: Jan 10, 2008 1:37 PM
ORDER 66
OBI-WAN: But he still has much to learn, Master. His abilities have made him...well, arrogant.

YODA: Yes, yes. It's a flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones.

(from Attack of the Clones)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After much meditation, I, Kenobi-fan, have come to understand something I can no longer keep to myself. I'm talking about something that could send a shockwave through the galaxy of fandom like an exploding Death Star. It might even make you question everything you think you know about the Jedi, the clones, and the most devastating command ever given...

Yes, I'm speaking of...ORDER 66.

It hangs in the air like a vulture above every SW fan's head. We all know it to be the signal given by the Chancellor to the clones ordering them to destroy their Jedi Generals. It's seems simple enough. Somewhere during their short lives the clones were given instruction on what this order meant and what it was they were to do - of this there can be no dispute. However what do we really know about this 'order'?

From the movies, all we hear is the Kaminoans state that the clones are more docile than the original host. The clones aren't robots, they haven't been given a 'Manchurian' style psychological implant, and they aren't stupid. Honestly, all we really see in the movies is a disfigured holo-image of a hooded Chancellor giving orders to groups of clones who follow it without hesitation.

The fact is the clones are bred to obey their Jedi Generals. Per page 20 of Republic Commando: Hard Contact: Darman, a Republic Commando himself, had been told that "Jedi were omniscient, omnipotent, and to be obeyed at all times". I imagine most every clone received the same instruction, excluding a limited few. Even if the clones find some fault with the Jedi, they follow them almost without question. They are tenacious warriors capable of great feats of terror and heroism. To come up against the clones is to come up against the best warriors in the galaxy.

As dangerous as the Clones are, the Jedi are even more powerful. Having control of a mystical energy field, they can run faster, jump higher, fight harder, and do things most others in the galaxy cannot do. Frankly, their abilities are frightening to clone and citizen alike. They can inspire both hope and fear, not to mention rip doors from their hinges with just their mind. The Jedi state their existence is to protect peace and justice, however they do not hold themselves above fighting as we've seen time and again. Should they give into the temptation to unleash themselves from their oaths and beliefs, who could stop these beings?

When one speaks of Jedi during the period of ROTS, you cannot help but think of Count Dooku. Unlike Maul, Dooku was a Jedi - a fallen Jedi. Not even the Jedi Order believed him capable of the scheme he was plotting. Despite the moral training of the Jedi, he consolidates and unleashes his power against both the Jedi and the Republic, as he no longer believes either serves the purpose for which it was intended. Both are now corrupt, needing a strong hand to guide them back to the principals of order under which they were formed. As skewed as this idea might be, it appears to be what he believed. Very few of us even see Dooku as a Sith, preferring to view him as a tragic idealist. Indeed.

Then there is Anakin, a suspicious and enigmatic addition to the Jedi Order. He is brash, powerful, prone to outbursts, extremely emotional, and highly independent. His desire for acknowledgement and power do not go unnoticed by the Council or Yoda. Very few in the Order trust Anakin or his motives. Whatever the reason for this mistrust, he is a frightful vision of the future for the Jedi. Should he decide to go the way of the Dooku or the lost 20 and trek out on his own, one can only imagine the impact he might have.

So, here we stand: on one side we have a group of tenacious warriors bred to obey the Jedi, while on the other are the Jedi who must order them into battle. What would happen if the Jedi became too attached and too concerned for the safety of their charges? What might happen if these Jedi believed they could make the world a better place, assigning their idealism in place of the Republic's or the Jedi Order itself? What would be the outcome of such an alliance of Jedi and Clone? Could the Republic stop such a force? Did anyone think of this when it was decided what form the GAR would take, who would be in charge, and how it would be handled? Of course, I think Palpatine thought about this...but so did Yoda.

Recall the quote above... Yoda was already concerned about the arrogance of the Jedi, about individuals like Anakin and Dooku, about how their abilities and attitudes were being corrupted by enigmatic and outside influences. What would happen if other Jedi became as these two - acting of their own volition, of their own beliefs? Now he's told about an army, an army created for the Republic, an army that would invariably be lead by the Jedi. How could they not?

Imagine the elderly Jedi Master watching the Order begin its dark descent into political intrigue and war. Do you remember his look as Ki Adi-Mundi stresses his confidence in Dooku to Amidala? Yoda knows the depths to which the Jedi can sink - they are not perfect beings and they can be corrupted. Anger, fear, aggression are the paths to the dark side - the very paths the Jedi were walking now.

Do you remember the manner in which Order 66 is given...it's not transferred down through the clone chain of command. It isn't handed down by the Kaminoans or the clones' instructors. The Chancellor himself gives it. Why? Clearly, if the clones are bred to obey the commands of Palpatine he should have only needed to tell a few commanders who in turn would tell all of their subordinates. However, this is not the case and it's certainly not what we see in the movie.

Okay, so what am I getting at? Obviously, it's always been a problem for me to reconcile the following seemingly contradictory issues:
1. The clones must obey the Jedi.
2. The clones must obey the order to kill the Jedi.

How can you both be loyal and mutinous at the same time? After pondering this for a while, it finally came to me. It's so simple as to be nearly unbelievable.

Really, there is only one logical answer:
THE JEDI CREATED ORDER 66. And not just any Jedi, but YODA himself.

I know what you're saying: What? Who? Where? No - it can't be! That's impossible!
Still, I implore you to search your feelings; you know it to be true.

Yoda created Order 66 to prevent the Jedi from ever gaining complete control of the Clones. Yoda understood enough to know the Jedi were walking a dark path, a path of fear, of power, and of attachment - a path that could lead to their destruction and the destruction of the Republic. Order 66 was an indeed a secret order - one Yoda instituted without any Jedi's knowledge or assistance for fear of it being discovered and subverted. However, shared it must should Yoda ever be killed or captured. Yoda really loved the Republic, he really loved democracy, which is why it must be shared should anything ever happen to him. Therefore he shared it with those he most sought to protect: the Republic. It couldn't be given to just any citizen; it had to be given to the leader of the Republic. Of course, I'm speaking of the democratically elected Chancellor: - Chancellor Palpatine.

We know Palps to be a Sith Lord, but no one else did. Even if Yoda suspected Palps motives, he never believed Palps to be a sinister force, and he certainly didn't believe it at the time the clones were finally pressed into service. No, at this point he was just a typical politician, but one that needed to be presented with an option to thwart a rogue Jedi-Clone union should one come to pass. It was never meant for mass use. It was only intended to take out a single Jedi should one ever begin to use the clones for their own ends. This is why you see Palps give the order himself in a series of displays rather than a single order transmitted through the chain of command - it was a specific order meant to be given to specific units. Only he knew about it and only he (or Yoda) could give it so that the clones would obey it.

By now you're saying I'm either a genius or I'm crazy but stick with me. Haven't you ever wondered why only Yoda went to Kamino and what he did with what he saw and learned there? Surely, if there were a plot against the Jedi he would have discovered it. Additionally, he would have delved into the minds of the clones and queried both the Kaminoans and the instructors as to their intentions and limits - Yoda is not stupid. To that end, isn't it interesting that Yoda senses the Clones turn but other Jedi do not - was he sensing something he himself did years earlier? The dark side might be clouding the future, but not his wisdom. No, there was no plot against the Jedi on the clone's part, and they weren't tricked into doing anything. Yoda just made sure that a 'kill switch' was implemented should the Jedi ever begin to fall to the Dark Side. To put it simply, Yoda created Order 66 and gave it to the clones in some manner, either directly or through the 're-conditioning' that took place from time-to-time. Given their training, the clones had to obey it. It was an order from the highest-ranking Jedi General - they must follow it and from anyone he gave permission to issue it to them.

Now, you're asking yourself the question about how the clones were going to be used if not to destroy the Jedi. The clones were meant to give Palpatine the opportunity to become Emperor. All Palps wanted to do was create a situation chaotic enough to thwart the Senate, forcing them to put him in ultimate control. As for killing the Jedi, did he really need Order 66? When you see what Anakin and the clones (just one Jedi and a group of clones) accomplished at the Temple - an entire building full of Jedi - the answer is 'not really'. Order 66 was simply a more expedient way to deal with the Jedi, one that Palps happily employed. Like everything he touched, Palpatine abused an Order meant to serve the Republic, not destroy it. It was a great tool, but not absolutely necessary. It wasn't even needed after Palps declared himself Emperor and controlled the clones outright. As a result of this action, the Jedi were now outside the Republic and no longer to be trusted or followed.

So, there you have it, though Palps utilized Order 66 he did not create it. He simply allowed the flow of events to bring what it would, just as he did with so many situations. In the end, Order 66 was merely meant to reign in rogue Jedi should they ever begin to utilize the clones for purposes beyond which they were intended. Sadly, the effect was much more tragic. As wise as Yoda is, he is not all seeing. His sole intention was to protect the Republic by giving the clones an order they had to follow if given by himself or Palpatine. It was just another miscalculation among many that both Yoda and the Jedi Order made, but one that ultimately purged them of the arrogance Yoda saw as the downfall of the Jedi (not to mention Anakin).

I know this is a lot to take, but judge for yourself. How can the clones follow the Jedi and disobey them at the same time? It's easy, if the order to disobey comes from the Jedi themselves.

Hey, if Luke could get over having Vader for a father,
than you can get over this - trust me. ;)

Note: I realize this is a controversial take on an event familiar to us all. Because of this, I will refrain from commenting as I normally do to allow for as many responses, retorts, and chuckles as possible. If you have a specific question you would like me to answer, please feel free to email me (see my profile). Finally, I'm not saying any of this is accurate or true - just that it feels right to me. I hope you enjoyed it...thanks!

  bcousin95
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 4:38 AM
you are a genius

it is a perfect peice in the demise of the jedi
  solsticedawn
His men will follow him anywhere, ner vod. But only out of a sense of curiosity.
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 4:47 AM
Well thought out blog. I'm not sure if I agree with you, but it is an interesting take on the situation.

Meditate on this, I will.
  Osilio Remus
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 5:15 AM
as bcousin95 said, you are a genius, and somehow makes everything about order 66 somewhat better.... thanks for a good blog Kenobi-Fan!!
Darth Rex0
So be it....
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 5:18 AM
What a load of garbage. Who would possibly think this is true. This is the biggest...


*actually thinks about it*

Hmm, this does make some sense.

Okay, you aren't completly off your rocker...:p
  jango_fett_89
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 6:30 AM
meh
  Master Jedi Michael
ANBU File 1262- Master Jedi Michael
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 6:31 AM
Did I just read that? Can it be true?

Of course it can be true, it's acctually the only way the Order 66 makes sense. I always grappled with the idea of Order 66, I truly didn't understand how it worked. I found it strange that clones bred to take every word out of a Jedi's mouth as a diving message from God would suddenly turn and kill all of them because Old Prunny told them to. I tried to reason with it inside my brain but I just couldn't make it make sense. I had never evn touched on an idea like that..

THE JEDI CREATED ORDER 66. And not just any Jedi, but YODA himself.

Right before this sentence I though" Oh! He's not gonna say it, "

MTFBWY]:) (of course we can never use yodacon's in the same way ever again.)
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 6:44 AM
The most disturbing thing about this scenario for me is that the decision to kill someone is in the hands of two people, and they have ultimate control, ultimate authority. I have accused Yoda of arrogance, but this would be the height of it. It assumes that he would know and understand a situation well enough to make that call even with the dark side clouding everything.

It does explain more clearly why Yoda would sense what's going on while no one else does. It also makes Yoda's admission of failure at the end of ROTS all the more poignant.

Fascinating, K-fan! God I love this stuff!
  Ian 6412
The Journals of RC-6412
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 7:10 AM
nice..... but domething feels out of place.
MomOf2YoungPadawan
Mamadala's Lair
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 7:18 AM
search your feelings; you know it to be true. Woweeeeeeee.....

See??? I told you Yoda was to blame for the downfall of the old JO :D ...I just never thought of it THIS way! ;)

An interesting POV, to be sure. Very well thought-out and supported. I'm not sure I'm totally with you on your theories, but you make a mighty good argument nonetheless.

One thing I'd like to point out is that in Dark Lord, a number of clone troopers actually disobeyed Order 66 b/c they didn't think it was "right." How does one explain this? I always wondered how the clones could be so willing to kill the Jedi anyway - such as Cody just blasting away at Obi-Wan after being his close comrade.

What's your take on this, K-Fan??
The Stooge
Star Wars Joke-A-Day
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 7:20 AM
You can be both a genius and crazy, y'know. Case in point...

Dude, time to give those X-Files discs a rest! ;)
  Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 7:25 AM
*re-directs a few comlinks to get a comment through*

Poor Yoda. Always putting in that "kill switch" and forgetting "abort".

Oh well, there's always the next Jedi Order. :)
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 7:27 AM
One thing I'd like to point out is that in Dark Lord, a number of clone troopers actually disobeyed Order 66 b/c they didn't think it was "right." How does one explain this?
Climber & Co are the proverbial exception that proves the rule. The clones are not robots - they can think for themselves. Having said that, its been stated time and again that most people, most soldiers, do what they are told. Yes, some folks buck that trend, but most do not. Without even considering the 'training' given clones, most people do not stand up against authority, no matter how right it might be to do so for fear of retribution. In this, neither real, Jedi, nor 'cloned' persons are different.
  21212121212
"So be it.......21212121212"
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 7:27 AM
Your facts are totally off chart!
The Chancellor gave the Order to exterminate the Jedi so he could start off right with his Empire. Thats all there is to it, Thats what GL intended, As I've said, your facts are totally off.

Rethink this I think you should.

May the Force be with you.
May it be with us all!
  luuke.skywalker
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 7:41 AM
Yoda created Order 66?! Why would he want to destroy the Jedi?!

It wasn't to destroy the Jedi - it was to stop any Jedi that went rogue and broke away from the Order. That's why Order 66 had to be given individually to each clone team.

Excellent thoughts, as always, K.
Darth Rex0
So be it....
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 8:11 AM
Your facts are totally off chart!

His facts fit. It is still a matter of if you go with it or not, but the facts fit. The author states when he goes into opinion, but his facts are solid. Shoot some specifics and I might go with you, but just declaring "your facts are totally off" doesn't help disuade me.
  WifeofVader
Tales from the Death Star
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 8:32 AM
Bravo, K-Fan!

I was intrigued by this blog and, like you, have been questioning these ideals since seeing ROTS the very first time.

It's a lot to think about but, I think you may be onto something here and, as Rex has stated, your ideas actually fit.

Congrats on this blog. It's nice to see people are still questioning the questionable. Nicely done!
viagoangel2
Were Anakin and Padme' really one?
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 8:36 AM
" Failed I have " :| Yoda to Bail ROTS...

First off, thanks for making me fall off my CHAIR!!! That's gonna leave a mark...
Anyway, what the heck were you drinking last night when you thought of this? Oddly enough your information is well supported and seems to fit together like a neat little puzzle.
To be honest, I never really thouhgt of HOW order 66 was learned or implanted amongst the clones....just that it HAPPENED...case closed. So *KUDOS* to you K-FAN and one thing I am postive about is that I know that I will see this Entry on the FRONT PAGE by tonight!!! Awesome research and congrats on a Job well done! Someone should pass this on to DA MAKER, would love to see his reaction to K-FAN'S theory....;) ANGEL
gold5
I lost Tiree, lost Dutch!..or How I learned to stop worrying and love the Death Star.
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 8:41 AM
This could be plausable but I'm not sure I can go along with it or not K-fan.

I think Yoda was able to stop his clones not because he sensed them any more than the other Jedi (even that though he was older, more experienced, and more in tune with the force than many). More probable is that he was able to sense the deaths of the other Jedi and was able to know he was in danger and opened up to his surroundings. Expecting anything he was much more prepared in that short moment than the others. He possibly even could sense betrayal behind the deaths he felt. Most they showed were in the middle of action and distracted. yoda was not.
amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 9:11 AM
Sad. If your theory is to be believed, K-fan, Yoda, then, fell victim to the very arrogance he warned about. He thought that HE, alone, knew what was best for the Republic and for the Jedi Order and did what HE thought was best. That doesn't make him any better than Anakin...or Dooku, for that matter. In fact, it makes Yoda a Jedi assassin, the likes of whom exists only in the EU. Disturbing, this is....and I have to say that I don't buy it. (more)

amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 9:12 AM
While it makes sense that Palpatine was even more of a manipulating ####### than we know, exploiting the "safety net" created by Yoda for Palps' own evil benefit, I just can't believe that Yoda was that stupid....although the line he speaks in ROTS, "To a dangerous place this will lead," (or however he says it...when talking about the Jedi briefly needing to take charge of the Senate if the Chancellor wasn't to be trusted) takes on a whole new life if Yoda is the one who instilled Order 66 in the clones.

Perhaps brilliant. Crazy. And sad, K-fan! And I still don't buy it...maybe because I don't want to.
JediPug1
Like My Father Before Me
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 9:17 AM
Hmmm...... This certainly is an interesting take on things, K-fan. Not sure if I'm agreeing with you or not. As Rex0 stated the facts do fit, but the same facts can be used to fit different interpretations. It's an "eye of the beholder" type thing.

Nice job, though.... and bravely done!

B-)
  WifeofVader
Tales from the Death Star
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 9:32 AM
I'm back. I can't seem to get this theory out of my head!

Even if Palps didn't KNOW about Order 66 prior to taking on his Apprentices, who's to say that one of the lost 20 - specifically Dooku - didn't inform Palps of this Jedi created Order 66? That would be an easy answer as to how Palps found out about it. Heck, who's to say that Anakin himself didn't tell Palps about it. After all, he was running to the Chancellor with the dealings of the Jedi Order. In trusting Palps as a "mentor and a friend", perhaps Anakin revealed too much.


  WifeofVader
Tales from the Death Star
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 9:34 AM
I agree with you that Yoda knew the demise of the Jedi was coming. However, I am still confused as to why Commander Cody would take the direct order from someone other than a Jedi - if indeed Order 66 was a Jedi originated order.

Perhaps because the clones were trained to take orders not question who was giving them to them. As long as the commands were correct, they were obeyed without question.

Sort of like programming a computer. As long as you give the computer the right commands, it will run the programs for you.... no matter if you are the one that should be running the programs or not.

Wow, K-fan! This has really got us thinking now!
  Michelle1968
M68- Star Wars Kid at Heart
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 9:48 AM
Well good morning to you too MK-fan! What a wonderful way to start my vacation. Your theory does make sense and relieves my confusion of how order 66 all went down.

I'm impressed with you noticing how the command wasn't issued through the ranks but by Palp himself. I never realized the significance of that. I know you, having a military background, notice these things.

I'm happy that you can now find peace with your thoughts on the clones. :)

Awesome is all I can say. Thank you.
MomOf2YoungPadawan
Mamadala's Lair
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 10:05 AM
Whew - mental meltdown! I've been thinking about this entry all morning ! *ouch*! Still not sure I buy into it totally but what a theory!! :)

Thanks for responding to the Climber inquiry - what you said makes perfect sense.

*sniff sniff* Do I smell a front page?? :D I concur w/Angel!
Darth Rex0
So be it....
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 10:12 AM
I just can't believe that Yoda was that stupid

Stupid or clouded by the Dark Side? I agree that its a leap of thinking. One just can't imagine Yoda making that kind of mistake. Remember, Yoda couldn't see the future at all. This had probably never happened to him in 900 years. He was going blind. Imagine him founding out about the army. Now Jedi would be in control of an army. A grand army at that. He new some of his Jedi had attatchment and arrogance issues (see quote from Ep. II). Maybe he thought, not foresaw, a Jedi taking abuse of that new found power. Like I said, I don't know, but it fits and that is what bugs me more than anything. I don't want to think it either.
nob01
Oil Bath Bubbles
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 10:30 AM
This is a nicely thought through theory - kudos.
Alhough it shouldn't be considered the definitive answer (at least not until GL pops up and says "Yeah, that's what I was thinking..."), it is certainly an intriguing one, and this is the kind of stuff that keeps our beloved saga alive, so thanks!
  DarthVicomte
Vicomte's Blog Extravaganza (Now Defunct)
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 10:34 AM
Pulling out the controversy, eh? Title gimmicks?

Dude, you really need to get your own ideas, there's gotta be some kind of copyright infringement here.

You'll be hearing from my lawyers shortly.

By the way, your idea is crap.:p
  padmeskywalker77
Padme's Legacy
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 10:41 AM
WOW!! What a controversial entry, k-fan. Like some have said, I also am not sure if I completely "buy into" this theory, but the facts do fit. Like AS1 said, it also bothers me that two individuals would have the ultimate control, the ultimate authority, to issue such an order. I have also accused Yoda of being arrogant, but to make the decision to order a Jedi killed because of attachment to his/her clone troops...this I cannot truly, 100%, believe. You do make a compelling argument on this, and I commend you for putting it out there for us to debate.
  Sol Kassar
Ramblings from the Detention Center (Startled)
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 10:44 AM
Brilliant! I never thought of 66 actually being programmed by the Jedi, let alone Yoda. It does give a new spin on the entire concept. I've always thought that arrogance was a major setback for the entire Jedi Order, but I never thought that it might get so out of hand that Yoda would need to, for lack of a better term, destroy them.....but would Yoda allow the Clones to take him out as well? And why Palpatine, why not give instructions to Bail?

Thats all there is to it, Thats what GL intended, As I've said, your facts are totally off.

There's alwasy one in the soup. GL intended many things, but that doesn't mean we're not allowed to question him or his intentions. That's what we're supposed to do...
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 10:45 AM
Yoda was ignorant on one of two parts:

1.He didn't know the clones were 'ordered' to kill the Jedi.

OR

2. He knew they were but could not see how his order would play out.

No matter what you believe, you have to believe one of these. In any event, Yoda missed something that put the Republic in danger. I prefer to think of him as extremely detailed at this point; he just couldn't see as far down the road as he used to. To take the other option is to say Yoda blindly trusted the fate of the Republic to an army made from the genes of a mercenary...dangerous indeed. Neither one leaves me with any warm-and-fuzzies.
  rhett0
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 10:54 AM
Great points but doesn't Palpatine's Transmission start with " Commander the time has come...." I always took this to mean that it was part of Palpatine's plan when the Clone Army was ordered by Dooku. I also always thought that we were seeing each Commander recieve the same transmission not several different one's. Afterall there were hundreds of planets that were being fought on ,and it would take a long time to make that many "calls".
  padmeskywalker77
Padme's Legacy
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 10:57 AM
Yoda missed something that put the Republic in danger.

Now there, I agree with you k-fan. Yoda obviously missed something along the way when it came to the clones...but with which scenario you put forth, I do not know. The Dark Side was blinding the Jedi in their use of the Force...maybe he did know about the order, but, as you said, was too blind to see how it would play out in the end. Either way, he placed his trust in these individuals to follow orders and fight for the ideals of the Republic...a mistake that cost him in the end. No "warm-and-fuzzies" here, either.
The Stooge
Star Wars Joke-A-Day
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 11:00 AM
Count me as another who keeps comin' back to read this...

... this entry 66. You clever dawg, you! :D
amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 11:01 AM
I don't think it's a matter of Yoda's blind trust. I think it's a matter of "desperate times call for desperate measures." The timing of the Republic's sudden need for a clone army fell right into Palps' evil hands...as was the master Dark Side plan, I believe (you know me and destiny). Yoda and the Jedi had no choice at that point but to use this mysterious clone army that happened to be there at the "right place at the right time." The stupidity comes in trusting in the clone army at all to solve the immediate danger that thje Jedi were in on Geonosis at that time.

More arrogance. Using an entire army to save a relatively few Jedi.

Maybe Yoda's really the one who suffered most from arrogance.
  bf2fan
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 11:16 AM
WOW good blog! i know you said this is what YOU feel and i think it goes in well, but i don't think that is not what GL ment with order 66, i don't know, mabye GL only knows(well mabye some others to).

any good blog! fits in well with There's been a rebellion sir, don't worry, the situation is under control.
hansgirl3
Invoking the Squee
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 11:50 AM
Hey there, K-fan!! Amazingly well-thought out entry here!! Interesting to say the least!!

I can say that your idea of Yoda having come up with Order 66 has some merit and may well have been the case! That is believeable! Especially since he said he had failed, etc.

I don't necessarily go along with the idea that Yoda is the one who told Palps, however. My reason is that Yoda didn't trust Palps, even though Palps was the Chancellor. Even before it was revealed that Palps was the Sith they were looking for, Yoda was concerned about Palps' greed for power, so I can't see him entrusting Palps with that Order.

I think Palps found out about Order 66 another way...
  Qui-Tom Servo loves Padme
You Must Unlearn What You Have Learned
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 12:13 PM
Interesting well reasoned theory. However, I disagree with it. I think the clones were coded to obey the Supreme Chancellor. Therefore, they could be told that the Chancellor wants them to obey the Jedi, and the Chancellor could later execute Order 66. I think that Yoda was in the dark about the clones until AOTC. It's quite easy for Dooku to lie to the Kaminoans and for Sidious to easily wire the funds. I just think that Yoda would be so duplicitous. He had his faults, yes, but implementing an order to execute all the Jedi is not one of them.
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 12:54 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot today, and a couple things have crossed my mind. Why would Yoda create an order that would make all of the Jedi vulnerable? If the clones would obey a Jedi command they would obey it at any time, so why not give the execution order only as necessary when the need arose, as opposed to having one way to kill any Jedi at any time. It seems to me that all Yoda would have to say is "so and so is not a Jedi anymore, execute them." Also, why wouldn't Yoda share this information with the council? The council members trusted each other with all kinds of secrets - why not this one?

Again, great entry, it just brings up lots of questions!
  EvilDarthBear
The Grand Admiral's Club
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 1:46 PM
Interesting...


It would make sense, but I prefer to believe that there was a set of contigency (sp?) orders, and that the clones were told to obey the Jedi, in service to the Republic, but obviously there was a chance they could attempt to take over, thus the reason for Order 66.

Add to that, the fact that the Jedi were using the clones, so there was some trust issues there, and you have a recipe for Order 66.

Nice try, but no banana :p
amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 1:55 PM
Aw come on, K-fan...make some more comments already. Geez... (and you can delete this one to make room :D )
comanderbly
That's Impossible. Even for a Computer.
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 2:14 PM
How can the clones follow the Jedi and disobey them at the same time? It's easy, if the order to disobey comes from the Jedi themselves.

Order 66 declares the Jedi enemies to the republic. If the clones ultimate duty is to protect the Republic, before everything else, then once Order 66 is declared the clones cannot follow Jedi orders - because they are now the enemy.
jkthunder
Seven Pieces
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 2:22 PM
Maybe I'm crazy too - I don't find it so unbeleivable that Yoda would and could create order 66. It actually fits quite well with many ancient eastern myths (Taosim, Buddhism and Hinduism). Weird, it really works with the "Kill the Buddha" story particularly, which seems to be a recurring theme for me lately. (anakinside1 wrote something related too)

But I don't really think that's what Lucas was intending in the story - even though he always leaves open ends like this for the fans to expand on with our own imaginations. SW makes us think.
jkthunder
Seven Pieces
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 2:31 PM
LOL - It's not controversial and too much to take. You may have been reading a few too many EU clone books though K-f ;)
  DarthVicomte
Vicomte's Blog Extravaganza (Now Defunct)
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 2:40 PM
However, I do have issues with some of the logic being put behind a few of the answers. Actually, I think some responses have the answers contained within them - the commenter just doesn't see it. Still, I will try to address some questions this evening.

Yes, well, you ruffians will have to wait. I cannot be seen conversing with the common rabble, you know, not when I am so much smarter and better than them. The very thought of it makes me laugh with glee. Oh, excuse me, I feel giddy. I must go for a breath of air...

Alms, massa?

;)
jedilily1026
Years Matter Not (Gone Crazy...Be Back Soon)
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 4:20 PM
Never a dull moment with your blogs.

Well, I'm so glad I waited until I had quiet time to read this very interesting blog. I understand your question "How can you both be loyal and mutinous at the same time?" That is something I have thought about over and over again. How could the Clones obey Palpatine so easily. No questions asked. Didn't they belong to the Jedi?

I can see the POV "felt by you" and it can be possible. Anything is possible in the SW galaxy. But I find it hard to believe Yoda could be so "mean" and destroy so many of his commrades even if he was looking out for good of the Republic. Return I will to read this if my head doesn't explode first. :D
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 6:07 PM
I don't think it's a matter of Yoda's blind trust. I think it's a matter of "desperate times call for desperate measures."
Yoda & Ben warned Luke of 'patience' before heading off to fight Vader. Could Yoda have been recalling the 'desperation' you spoke of - the desperation to save the Republic without thinking it through...hmmmm...it would account for many of the Jedi Order's many mistakes.
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 6:07 PM
I think Palps found out about Order 66 another way...
Either the clones follow the Jedi or they don't - I have yet to read one thing that contradicts the caveat that the clones 'HAVE TO' follow the Jedi. For Palps to direct the clones against the Jedi would imply that the clones 'don't really' follow the Jedi making any comments that they do complete non-sense such as in Hard Contact and elsewhere. I will take GL & Co. at their words for now.

I think the clones were coded to obey the Supreme Chancellor.
The clones were not coded or implanted with 'secret commands'...there is no information in the books or movies to support this.
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 6:08 PM
Why would Yoda create an order that would make all of the Jedi vulnerable?
The Jedi were already vulnerable. Recall Yoda's words to Kenobi at the end of AOTC (..."Victory? Victory, you say?)." I don't know what Yoda's thoughts on the council were but given his comments as indicated above and elsewhere ("...to a dark place we go") and the sideways glances he gives to his comrades, I believe any faith Yoda had in Mace & Co. was rapidly waning. Again, refer to the movies themselves for this point.

so why not give the execution order only as necessary when the need arose,
That was Yoda's exact intention...to be used only as necessary. Palps was the one that misused it.
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 07, 2006 6:10 PM
but obviously there was a chance they could attempt to take over, thus the reason for Order 66.
Either Yoda knew about '66' or he didn't. If he didn't at the moment he used the clones, he had 3-years to investigate the nature of the clones and understand to whom they were actually loyal to. If that wasn't enough time, then Yoda is not the Master we believe him to be (...never his mind on where he was, what he was doing).

I'll leave you with this final quote:
Palps: Master Yoda - you survived.
Yoda: Surprised?
...think of that exchange in light of this blog.

And with that, I am done. Thank you all!
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