Hello, you are not signed on.
[ Blogs.starwars.com ]

The Jundland Wastes Journal
date posted: Aug 23, 2006 8:29 AM  |  updated: Jan 10, 2008 1:37 PM
ORDER 66 - A Postscript
Partly because I failed to include it in my entry, Order 66, and partly to address ongoing questions and distortions about my thoughts, I thought I would provide you with a timeline for SOME of the events I believe took place around the time Order 66 was invoked. Following this, I will address a couple of issues that continue to plague my email. Again, this is merely an extrapolation and interpretation from what I believe happened around this time...I am no threat to your view of the GFFA, I can assure you.

Have fun!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

BBG - Before the Battle of Geonosis
ABG - After the Battle of Geonosis
- all times are approximated

25 - 20 BBG
Padme Amidala is born.

20 BBG - 10 BBG
Anakin Skywalker is created.
King Veruna of Naboo abdicates throne; Queen Amidala takes his place.
Darth Sidious kills Darth Plagueis.
King Veruna dies.
Darth Sidious initiates the Neimodians blockade of Naboo.
Senator Palpstine requests Chancellor Valorum use the Jedi to force a settlement.
The Jedi are forced to land on Tatooine.
The Jedi discover Anakin Skywalker.
Darth Maul is killed without being questioned.
Senator Palpatine becomes Chancellor Palpatine.
Master Sifo-dyas is killed.
Count Dooku (aka Darth Tyrannus) replaces Darth Maul.
Count Dooku contracts with Jango Fett.
At the behest of Darth Sidious, Master Sifo-dyas (aka Dooku, aka Tyrannus), along with Jango Fett, create the Clone army.


10 BBG - 0 BBG
Anakin's Jedi training begins.
Chancellor Palpatine befriends / mentors young Anakin Skywalker.
Yoda senses a growing, but undefined, disturbance in the Force.
The Naboo-Neimodian trade dispute expands into a rebellion against the Republic.
Provisions are created to ensure Palpatine remains Chancellor for the length of the 'crisis'.
Jango Fett is contracted to assassinate Queen Amidala.
Chancellor Palpatine requests the Jedi protect Queen Amidala.
The Jedi track Amidala's assassin to Kamino.
Kenobi discovers the clones on Kamino.
Kenobi is captured and held hostage by the CIS, Dooku, and Fett.
Chancellor Palpatine establishes the GAR in defense of the Republic.
Yoda travels to Kamino to investigate and enlist the Clone army.


Battle of Geonosis
The Jedi engage in a full scale battle.
Jango is killed before he can be questioned.
Yoda arrives with the clones, whose mandate is to protect the Republic under orders of the Jedi.
Dooku escapes with the Death Star plans.
The Clone War begins.


0-1 ABG
Chancellor Palpatine, the Senate, and the Jedi determine the final organization of the GAR and how it's to be used for the remainder of the war.
In cooperation with Palpatine, Yoda has Order 66 added to the clones training protocols to protect against rogue Jedi and a potential Jedi Civil War.


1-3 ABG
The clone wars rage on for 3-years.
General Greivous is created.
General Greivous and Count Dooku kidnap Chancellor Palpatine.
Count Dooku is killed before he can be questioned.
Distrust of Palpatine grows among the Jedi as he is seen grabbing more power from the Senate.
General Grievous is killed before he can be questioned.
The Jedi decide to remove the Chancellor; Palpatine is revealed to be a Sith Lord.
Anakin Skywalker replaces Count Dooku.
Chancellor Palpatine invokes Order 66 to destroy the Jedi and prevent a potential Civil War.
Chancellor Palpatine reorganizes the Republic into an Empire, naming himself Emperor.
All Jedi are now labeled as traitors.
A rebellion against the Empire grows in secret.

The fears of both Yoda and Palpatine are finally realized: a Galactic Civil War begins...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The single greatest issue I've seen in dispute of my ideas is the following:
The clones are loyal to the Republic first. As such, they ultimately follow its leader, the Chancellor, and any orders he gives. The fact that the clones report to the Jedi is mere formality. The clones destroyed the Jedi because the Chancellor told them to - period.

Even if we ignore the fact that the clones were trained to follow the Jedi without question, it is still a very flawed statement to make. Here's why: CHAIN OF COMMAND (CoC). We all hear about this, but unless you've been in the military, its reality is somewhat misunderstood. To help illustrate this I will invoke two examples, one from a Republic, the other from an Empire...let's begin.

Referencing a Republic, specifically the USA, all soldiers see the President as Commander-in-Chief, the highest commanding officer - that's true. Having said this, you must understand how unusual it is for soldiers to receive an order from, much less follow, someone so far up on the CoC - it just isn't done. The basic reason for a CoC is to avoid confusion on the battlefield. With the huge potential for miscommunication, it's the only way of ensuring everyone is doing the job required of them - its not to be lightly thrown away. If you're receiving a command from someone so high up, it must mean that every leader in between must be suspect, otherwise you would have issued it down through them. The request itself puts the entire organization at risk for dissolution. Ask any soldier if presented with a face-to-face order from their Commander (someone they've bled with, be they General, Lieutenant, or Sergeant) and the President himself, who would they follow? Go ahead, ask. I think you'll be surprised by the answer. The act of issuing a direct order from someone like a president would cause serious questions among such highly disciplined soldiers. Since the clones had officers from generals to commanders to sergeants in place, it would make no sense to them to receive such an order unless something very specific was put in place, something that would permit them to follow this order, while seemingly not conflict with their primary duty: to follow their generals, the Jedi.

To expand on this I will now reference an Empire - the Roman Empire. Since we're talking about a movie, I would like to invoke the following cinematic example: Gladiator (starring Russell Crowe). In the final scene we see an ex-General, Maximus, battling against the Roman Emperor, Commodus. In the ensuing combat, the Emperor loses his sword which places himself in mortal danger. The Emperor commands the surrounding soldiers to throw him a sword. They disobey. The soldiers appeared confused and uncertain. Why the uncertainty? It's the Emperor, he should be followed without question, right? Notice, they disobey at the command of another General - General Quintus. Here we have the leader of the known civilized world demanding a sword from soldiers sworn to protect him and the Empire - not one soldier obeys. Because when push comes to shove, soldiers obey their generals first, the civilian leaders last. So, again, unless there was a plan in place that would allow for these soldiers to obey both their General and their Emperor, the soldiers did what they were trained for - they followed the Chain of Command. The next person up from most soldiers is another soldier - that's who they respond to. Despite the authority of the Roman Emperor, a General (two, in fact) placed their own will ahead of the current leader of the nation. Had Order 66 not been in place, the Republic was subject to the same risk with the Jedi in charge - a rogue General countermanding an order from the accepted military or political leader of the people, be that person Yoda or the Chancellor. Yoda being aware of the growing arrogance of the Jedi, needed to have an order in place that left no room for doubt in the clones' minds whom was in charge. Order 66 meant exactly what we think it meant: your generals have rebelled against the Republic. As the order came from a Jedi General, a soldier (yes, I mean Yoda) it was an order the clones would accept as coming from the legitimate person in charge. Sharing this responsibility with Palpatine was prudent as he was the accepted civilian leader - the survival of the Republic was paramount.

Finally, I would like to address the issue of the phrase: It will be done, my lord. Most comments surrounding this response fall back to this as proof that the clones were always in league with Sidious/Palpatine, not the Jedi. I disagree, of course. Again, falling back on my own military training, I offer up to you the concept of a password - a code that ensures the validity and receipt of a specified transmission. Rather than being a sinister response from a brain-washed clone, it is simply the expected response to a special order. If someone invokes this order, this is the response that is given. That is to say, if Palpatine or Yoda, gave such an order, the response to be given in return was: it will be done, my lord. A special order deserves a special response - I don't think it had anything to do with a special arrangement between Palps and the clones. Now, it doesn't appear that this was the response given by each clone, but then again, the clones aren't robots - each might have had a certain nuance to it that shouldn't detract from the overall intent - the message has been heard, understood, and will be carried out.

Again, all of this is speculation on my part from what I can discern of this subject based on my experiences and my knowledge of the GFFA. And I apologize for delving further into this exhausted subject but I felt there was enough information with which to do so. I promise to refrain from any further expansion on this issue unless ordered to do so from the appropriate personnel. Dismissed.

Of course, your comments, rants, and counter theories are welcome.

  jedimaster13109
Meditations of a Star Wars Fan
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 8:52 AM
Interesting yet again. I had thought this had been covered enough but I see still more valid points here. Your examples of the chain of command are well done, they make sense, and should fit into the situation between the clones and the Jedi but they don't fit perfectly. They main question one must ask is whether the clones had a true bond with their Jedi generals. Unlike the soldiers in your examples the clones were trained to be inhuman, and to obey any order any order at all without question. They weren't trained to become friends with the Jedi, they were trained to be a well-oiled military machine that would carry out all orders given to them through the chain of command.
  jedimaster13109
Meditations of a Star Wars Fan
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 8:57 AM
The fact is it was Palpatine who gave the Jedi authority and ranks within the Grand Army of the Republic. The clones were made for the Republic not for the Jedi. Palpatine allowed the Jedi to serve as Generals. The clones answer to the Republic not the Jedi. The clones served along side the Jedi and followed their orders at the request of higher up authorities in the Republic as soon as those authorities withdrew their support of the Jedi the clones would be bound by their very genetics to obey them.
  darth maul517
Darth Jedi Maul Secura
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:00 AM
true bond with their Jedi generals
i would say ,yes .some clones did not even kill the jedi but let them escape
they followed there jedi general until yoda or palps said to eliminate them for being a theat to the republic.

i do have a question,why didnt yoda execute order 66 on Depa Billipa when she went bad in the battlefield
  ARCtrooper46
Soysauce's Rants and Raves
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:02 AM
I think you have explained yourself well, K-fan. You always have facts to back yourself up.

Well said. [applause]
  jedimaster13109
Meditations of a Star Wars Fan
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:06 AM
My counter theory is this- Dooku and Palpatine arranged for Order 66 to be taught to the clones when they came to make the order. They also arranged for perhaps hundreds of orders to be taught to them. Later when Kamino and the army was discovered , Yoda made a trip to the cloners and saw the list of orders that had been taught to the clones. Either he 1. Agreed that Order 66 (since like you said it was to be executed individually) was necessary in order to prevent and contain a possible Jedi rebellion or 2. He knew that the army was needed now and there was no time to re-train the clones. Personally I go with #1. Palpatine must have designed it, because if he didn't than did this whole Order 66 thing just fall into his lap?
  jedimaster13109
Meditations of a Star Wars Fan
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:07 AM
i do have a question,why didnt yoda execute order 66 on Depa Billipa when she went bad in the battlefield

Very interesting, of course I would argue we should keep the EU out of this.
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:17 AM
Unlike the soldiers in your examples the clones were trained to be inhuman...
Ouch! I disagree - the clones were human in every respect.

The clones served along side the Jedi and followed their orders at the request of higher up authorities...
Think of the hypocrisy here: The leader of society puts a general in charge of your life, but then tells you that general is a traitor and a threat. Whose sanity are you going question here: the general or the leader?

  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:23 AM
i do have a question,why didnt yoda execute order 66 on Depa Billipa when she went bad in the battlefield
I am unfamilar with this story (Shatterpoint by M. Stover). Was she attempting to use the clones in any way? Order 66 referenced threats to the Republic - was she a direct threat? If she was simply a Jedi who had fallen away - violently or otherwise - Order 66 would have been inappropriate. It addressed threats to the Republic only.
  Zelaskowski
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:24 AM
K-Fan, excellent blog! I had already accepted your theory as completely possible before, but now it feels like an air-tight case. I also agree with your response to the clones being "dehumanized". They were clones of a human, not robots. I don't think their humanity could have been removed. They could be made more obedient and pliable among other things, but not less human. Your theory should not threaten anyone else's view of Star Wars. Until George Lucas says otherwise, it's simply a theory, but a great one!!!
  darthapple34
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:38 AM
1. "I still posit that Yoda was in greater fear of a Jedi revolt than of Palpatine being a Sith Lord." -K-Fan
The Jedi, as a whole, are not prone to revolt. Of all the thousands upon thousands of Jedi that had been trained in the one thousand years of the Republic's existence, only twenty, the Lost Twenty, had ever left the Jedi Order. With the extremely conservative estimate of three Jedi trained per year, this means that the Jedi have a revolt rate of less that 1%. It is important to understand that in the thousand years of the Republic's existence, the Clone Army was certainly not the only major temptation to potential Jedi revolters.
  darthapple34
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:38 AM
(continued) A Lost Jedi could single-handedly take over a planet by overthrowing its government, he could use mind tricks to achieve great political power... he could even manipulate his way to becoming Chancellor. Yet even with all these temptations, leaving the Jedi order, let alone revolting, is extremely rare for Jedi. Their training has as one of its primary doctrines the idea of selflessness
  darthapple34
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:39 AM
(continued) If Jedi would be unable to follow this doctrine given a Clone Army, it is very likely that there would have been a wealth of Jedi traitors stalking the Galaxy throughout the history of the Republic, giving in to similar temptations. Yet the fact remains that a mere twenty Jedi have ever left the order, and it is unlikely that every one of these left the Order with the express purpose of seeking greater power.
  darthapple34
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:40 AM
(continued) 2. The idea that the clones must follow only the orders of a Jedi commander is simply false. Were this true, your argument would be valid, and I would have suspicions myself. However, this premise is not supported by the plot of the movie. The Jedi were unaware of the creation of the clone army. Their training was not centered around "Jedi worship" (despite what various illegitimate non-movie sources may assert); it was centered around obeying some commander for the sake of the Republic, whoever that commander may be.
  darthapple34
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:40 AM
(continued) Therefore, it is entirely possible that the Chancellor could make this order without the input of the Jedi. Being the leader of the Republic (which places him above the Jedi in terms of bureaucratic Republic authority), the Chancellors lone (or at least Jedi-less) role in the creation of Order 66 is completely plausible.
  darthapple34
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:41 AM
(continued) 3. Lucas is primarily a visual storyteller. This means that he makes explicit the most important plot points in all of the movies; the entire sequence with the Chancellor giving Order 66 and the Jedi dying, for example, would not have been included in such an obvious way if there were something under the surface about which the audience knew nothing.
  I Macar
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:41 AM
i do have a question,why didnt yoda execute order 66 on Depa Billipa when she went bad in the battlefield

To my knowledge she didn't have any clones. Her mission at the beginning was to assist a local resistance movement against the separatists.....at least thats what I remember it as being...?:|

Awsome blogs K-fan. It makes much more sense than Yoda forgetting to read the list of secret clone orders or something. ;)
Jedimca0
Master Yoda's Visions(by a "Dutch Yoda")
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:52 AM
It took some time to read it al but I think you couldn't be more right. what other logical reason for order 66 can there be.
I completely agree with you.

MTFBWY...........Always B-)
The Stooge
Star Wars Joke-A-Day
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 10:05 AM
Huh. So Yoda didn't do it? ;)

Anyhoo, I kinda agree with rhett0's comment in your original blog: the one line which really throws a wrench in your theory was "Commander, the time has come." Those words made Order 66 sound much more like a planned strike on the Jedi as a whole than any sort of "fail safe" against rogues.

Still, it can be rationalized, I'm sure. And excellent timeline!
  jedimaster13109
Meditations of a Star Wars Fan
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 10:06 AM
Think of the hypocrisy here: The leader of society puts a general in charge of your life, but then tells you that general is a traitor and a threat. Whose sanity are you going question here: the general or the leader?

This isn't about hypocrisy though, the clones were trained to obey any order without question period, there is no exception. It isn't about questioning, the clones can't question that is why they are somewhat inhuman.

  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 10:28 AM
...the one line which really throws a wrench in your theory was "Commander, the time has come."
I agree.

The whole theory stems from my from the disbelief that a 'secret order', one not implanted without the clones knowledge, could escape the knowledge of the Jedi after 3-years. We're not talking a vague Dark Side feeling - this order was a hard fact. It's fine that the clone instructors drilled it into them but could this really escape the eyes of the Jedi and the Republic? Referencing Etain and Darman (again), could they really have a relationship if Darman knew he was training to kill her at a pre-set time? It doesn't make sense. Maybe they are 'inhuman'.
  greenandwhitejedi
Bar 66
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 10:33 AM
25 - 20 BBG
Padme Amidala is born.


Wow. Surely that must be some sort of record. Her mum must have been sore after that.

Seriously though, your reasoning appears to be sound (although an empire can be a republic, but that is irrelevant to the issue at hand). This might be dumb but, what about the Clones themselves? If a bunch of Commanders got together then they could have a million troops marching on the Senate by teatime. Were the Lieutenants under orders to keep an eye on them? And the Sergeants to keep an eye on them in turn? Madness without end! I'm being glib, I know.
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 10:41 AM
If a bunch of Commanders got together then they could have a million troops marching on the Senate by teatime.
I've argued this before. Given the clones treatment as virtual slaves by the Republic, I find it highly probable that they would have rebelled eventually. Given their ties to Mandalorian culture, I can't believe they wouldn't rather die fighting for their own freedom over some Republic that's more than happy to throw them away. The clones are problematic on many levels - I'm just trying to make some very irregular pieces fit together without warping what we know. I know - I'm the one that's warped. Ha!
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 10:43 AM
(although an empire can be a republic, but that is irrelevant to the issue at hand)
Had to think about that for a moment - then I remembered who I was talking to. ;)
gold5
I lost Tiree, lost Dutch!..or How I learned to stop worrying and love the Death Star.
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 11:01 AM
Maybe the official orders stopped at 65. The last was secret known only to the one who actually procured the clone army. Just a thought.;)

You make good arguments but I just can't go with the larger order 66 theory but it's cool to discusss it. I do think LOE said something about the clones answering to the Jedi and not the chancellor just as you say. But the interchange was one that left you thinking that this was an illusion for the benefit of the Jedi.
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 11:35 AM
I am no threat to your view of the GFFA, I can assure you.

Oh, sure you're not. Believe me I don't read your stuff with the illusion that my habitual perspective is in anyway safe from your theories! But that's where the fun begins!:D ;)
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 12:27 PM
Oh, sure you're not. Believe me I don't read your stuff with the illusion that my habitual perspective is in anyway safe from your theories! But that's where the fun begins!
Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Star Wars geek. Learn the Kenobi-fan side of the Force and you will save your fandom from certain death. ]:)

Thanks, A1...;)
  Son of a Bith
The Cantina Corner
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 12:57 PM
I think I throw this in here just for fun...;)

And this.
  LTjedijunkie
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 6:20 PM
Outstanding blog. B-)
ewanandhaydenfan5
I Have You Now!
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 7:06 PM
the entire sequence with the Chancellor giving Order 66 and the Jedi dying...would not have been included in such an obvious way if there were something under the surface about which the audience knew nothing.
I'd have to agree with this one.

Great entry anyway, K-fan. You've certainly given this a lot of thought. Very nice timeline.

Bith, those are hysterical!
  jkelly
There Is No Conflict
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 8:46 PM
Were Bith's links supposed to be funny or patriotic? Where's EDB when you need him?

The Order 66 sequence is just written that way because it's sooo cool. The theory is definitely creative, though, and the supporting arguments are good.

Here's the other side of the coin, though -- Palpatine's fingerprints are all over everything. I mean, I don't think the guys sleeps. He's just that ingrained in everything. He is the fascist dictator that must control everything. Don't think of Ceasar or the President; think of HItler or Mussolini. Wouldn't those soldiers unquestionably follow a direct command from one of those guys?
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:13 PM
You've certainly given this a lot of thought.
Probably a little too much when I look back at it....5000+ words on a subject that will probably be rendered moot in a year or two when an actual author provides us with what actually occured. Oh well.

  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:17 PM
Wouldn't those soldiers unquestionably follow a direct command from one of those guys?
Was Palpatine speaking to the military like one of these guys...you can't really tell from the movies (or the EU for that matter). Just how much interaction was he having with the military and how could you by-pass all of it's generals? Even Hitler had key military members in place to assist him, didn't he? Besides, this renders the clones own beliefs that they MUST follow the Jedi meaningless...maybe they were brain-washed. It's hard to believe they would follow an order from a hooded man so easily. How did they know he had just been disfigured so quickly? He didn't even sound the same. (con't)

  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:18 PM
The Order 66 sequence is just written that way because it's sooo cool.
Having said that, yes, I believe the entire scenario was simply done for dramatic effect - the facts surrounding Order 66 are basically irrelevant. You simply have to accept the fact that he was able to get the clones to kill the Jedi - how doesn't really matter in the end. I had fun trying to 'reason' it out though. Thanks, jkelly.
  jkelly
There Is No Conflict
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 9:35 PM
Even Hitler had key military members in place to assist him, didn't he?

Yes, but what I know of history (mainly from the History Channel, History International, and the Military Channel), Hitler was an extreme micro-manager -- stepping in and making decisions where he should leave his generals in charge. The manner in which he overstepped the CoC was what led some generals to attempt assassination.

Also, fortunately for Palps, the holo-image messaging system is a lot like the cell phones of today. Reception is bad, scratchy, and intermittent. Therefore, the changes to his voice and appearance were hardly noticed.
JediMelindaWolf
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 10:10 PM
K-fan, I have enjoyed all of your ideas & musings about Order 66. I don't agree with them, but I've enjoyed reading them. The amount of time and work you've put into this topic is, truly, awesome.
Okay, I can't give you any hard evidence, but I do NOT see Yoda engineering Order 66. He loved the Jedi, the Jedi Order, and I cannot imagine his wanting to destroy it.
Palpatine masterminded everything from the getgo.
(cont. . .)
JediMelindaWolf
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 10:14 PM
(cont. . .)

(TPM)
Darth Maul: ". . .At last we will have revenge."
Darth Sidious: ". . .It is too late for them to stop us now. Everything is going as planned. The Republic will soon be in my control."

Don't forget, too, that Yoda had misgivings about the leadership of the Republic (Palpatine) and the direction the Republic was going. It's evident in his body language. Yoda was a Jedi of few words, but his face and body language spoke volumes!

Thanks for getting us all thinking!
MTFBWY :)
  gozags65
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 11:04 PM
It may be impossible to dissuade you, but here goes:
1. GL didnt intend that only a handfull of fans online would ever understand such a fundamental part of ROTS.
2. Yoda wouldve share such dangerous information with the council before sharing it with Palpatine. The council distrusted him, thats why anakin was asked to spy on him.
3. The Order could have easily went undetected by only teaching it to the commanders. It could be done in the course of 5 minutes in a private room.
4. All your examples of CoC involve unaltered humans. Clones obey any order whereas humans dont. The supreme chancellor is the highest authority in the galaxy. The clones trust his word over all else.
JediMelindaWolf
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
date Posted: Aug 23, 2006 11:04 PM
Kenobi-fan, have you read "Star Wars On Trial"?

I know this only will add fodder to your argument, but David Brin (the prosecution) makes some interesting points about Yoda in his opening (I'm pretty sure) statement.

While it's true that I don't agree with your thinking on this particular matter, it certainly gives one food for thought . . .

JMW out :)
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 24, 2006 4:02 AM
The amount of time and work you've put into this topic is, truly, awesome.
LIke I said, I've probably spent a little too much time on it...;)


  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 24, 2006 4:02 AM
3. The Order could have easily went undetected by only teaching it to the commanders. It could be done in the course of 5 minutes in a private room.
Uh, no. Again, I revert back to what I know of soldiering. A 5-minute meeting that you might have to slaughter your generals seems completely out of sorts. Yes, I know it's a movie, and yes, I know they're clones, but no, I don't think this is reasonable at all. If they could accept this order that easily then they could accept an order to jump around like a rabbits and make cow noises in the middle of a battle - it's ridiculous. I'm kidding...sort of.
  leialookalike1
date Posted: Aug 24, 2006 6:33 AM
When you put it that way, this seems more believable.
  darthapple34
date Posted: Aug 24, 2006 4:28 PM
Great blog with many good points K-fan. Although these are good points, I have to agree with JediMelindaWolf and gozags65.

PS: Sorry about overwhelming the blog, I'm still rather new at this. I would write my own blogs, but alas I am not a hyperspace member. I would also like to hear everyone elses points as you said, and if more space is needed, you may delete my posts as they have already been read.
"You'sa point is well seen." Pardon the Jar Jar quote

Also I would like to hear your opinion on my points K-fan. You are certainly a critical thinker and I would like to hear what you think!
  gozags65
date Posted: Aug 24, 2006 11:18 PM
I realize that you have been a soldier, and you have experience, but based on what we hear in the movie, the clones have been modified to be absolutely obedient to authority. Like I said, this means that all your examples based on your experience are irrelevant and do not apply.

anyways, thank you for addressing point #3 of my first post, and feel free to address the others if you have an explanation.
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 25, 2006 7:19 AM
PS: Sorry about overwhelming the blog, I'm still rather new at this.
No problem, da34.

My comments stem from the comments of the clones themselves about the Jedi and their responsibility to them. They also stem from comments from GL himself - the clones are not brainwashed nor are they robots - they know what they are doing and they accept it....(con't)
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 25, 2006 7:21 AM
If that's true, then you must accept that the clones acknowledge that the Jedi are to be obeyed without question. As such, unless a Jedi (like Yoda) said 'kill your generals' the order would be meaningless no matter how pliable they were. I find most of the responses I've received are the result of personal opinion and bias and not based on what the SW saga itself has informed us of.

However, I agree - that was probably not what GL intended. Still, that fact that this idea gives most readers some pause (or irritation) implies my interpretation is significant on some basic level.

  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 25, 2006 7:27 AM
the clones have been modified to be absolutely obedient to authority.
Exactly...the authority of the Jedi. Again, you are making the assumption that Yoda would not know to whom the clones ultimately responded to. If Yoda was so distrustful of Palpatine, and he knew to whom the clones were ultimately responsible to, does it make sense that Yoda would place so many Jedi in jeopardy in such a way? I don't think this scenario is any better than mine...actually, I think it's worse. It makes Yoda look like an incompetent boob. Again, I think Yoda knew everything, what he didn't know was how it would play out - the future was clouded, not his judgment.

Thanks for your comments.
  Darth Rex0
So be it....
date Posted: Aug 25, 2006 12:16 PM
I made it in. I love the timeline and it helps to get an "order of events". Again, I say your theory holds water. Do I think it happened like that? I don't know. That is the issue, we really don't know how the order was ingrained or whatever. What seems clear is that every clone did not know what the order was and that the ones that did know it, followed the order without hesitation. To be honest, I'm not sure Lucas himself knows exaclty how it went down.
  Darth Rex0
So be it....
date Posted: Aug 25, 2006 12:54 PM
Don't think I didn't see through this entry as another way to continue comments BTW. Ha!
  cbern
Omega Squad's 5th member
date Posted: Aug 25, 2006 1:06 PM
great timeline, awesome blog kenobi fan!

as you know, i still agree with your yoda order 66 idea, and this definitely helps me prove my point

now, when someone says"what. that's impossible" i can show them that, no, it's not

thanks for putting me on your blog roll, too!
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Aug 26, 2006 9:23 AM
And so it comes to end...

Thanks again for everybodys' comments. :D
  • Please log in to post comments