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The Jundland Wastes Journal
date posted: Nov 15, 2005 7:53 AM  |  updated: Dec 02, 2005 7:39 AM
"...there's no such thing as luck."
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck"
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Episode IV

When I first heard this phrase, I assumed that Obi-wan Kenobi was speaking specifically of the Force. I thought Ben was impressing upon an impetuous Han Solo (and young Luke Skywalker) how the Force guided one's destiny and brought them to the crossroads of life where they would have to make very personal and fateful decisions. I believe I may have been mistaken to some extent.

Now that the Prequel Trilogy is complete, the context of Obi-wan's comments has changed in my point of view. Specifically, I'm speaking of Palpatine. Palpatine orchestrated perhaps the greatest coup of the last one-thousand years. He controlled everything from his ascent in the senate, to the creation of a clone army, not to mention the destruction of the Jedi, and his self-appointment as Emperor (some might even go so far as to say he was instrumental in the creation of the Chosen One).

Given all of this, Obi-wan's comments aboard the Falcon seem less positive now and much more somber. Indeed, luck seemed to play very little part in the destiny of our Star Wars heroes and villains. Sure, you could say the Force was guiding everything, but it's possible that Obi-wan's view was that everything was being guided by something or 'someone', and not necessarily for 'good'. After learning about the nature of Palpatine's plot and it's outcome, Obi-wan may have viewed the Force in a whole new light and not necessarily a good one. He may have concluded that you could never be sure who was controlling what, just that it probably wasn't 'luck' that moved the various chess pieces around the galactic-board.

Finally, I realize GL may have not intended for such an interpretation way back in '77 and that I'm probably reading too much into this. However, I thought I'd share this little nugget that popped into my head this past weekend.

  Darth Rex0
So be it....
date Posted: Nov 15, 2005 8:42 AM
Well, I agree it seems something else was in control, and that Kebobi's line means a little more now. As far as the "what" that is in control is a little harder to define. You could say the force is, but that doesn't quite satisfy everthing. Both good and bad use the Force, so it would be hard for me to believe the Force had a consciousness because it would have to be for both good and bad at the same time. A former Hyperspace member (Wrath of the Whills) had a theory of the Whills being the "Gods" of the SW universe and they were in charge of the Force. I don't know about that, but he had interesting arguments. I would direct you to his blogs, but they are gone now.
  mptdr666@wmconnect.com
date Posted: Nov 15, 2005 9:14 AM
in life some things are plan . but what if a lot of luck had to do with it . and now ben knows that vaders luck is about to run out . so luck is good and bad .
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Nov 15, 2005 9:14 AM
I'm just thinking that, in light of the prequels, Obi-wan was speaking somewhat ironically when he made this comment. Sure, Obi-wan believes the Force is inherent in the universe, but there are other 'forces' at play that may have just as powerful an effect on one's destiny and fortune. Forces that are just as mysterious and almost as powerful.
  JediKnight Harlesc Mondrum
The Star Wars saga... Beautiful from start to conclusion.
date Posted: Nov 15, 2005 9:53 AM
To me I think Ben Kenobi was right in the comment that he made to Luke. You said that you thought the Force guides and directs the events but there is such a thing as free will even in the confines of the Story of Star Wars. I think that George Lucas ment for the Force to probably be more of a companion that helps out and gives those people who have learned how to harness it power. Then ultimately it's up to those people to use the Force for good or evil. When Obi-Wan Kenobi told Luke that there is no such thing as luck I think he was trying to instill in him that the power to either follow the path to the light side of the Force or decsend down into the dark side of the Force was entirley up to him.
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Nov 15, 2005 10:21 AM
Ben was actually speaking to Han when he made this comment for the benefit of both Luke and Han. My comments were spawned from my original belief that the Force was a strictly benevolent mystery. However, given what we know about Ben, the Emperor, and the Republic by the time of Ep IV, his comment about not believing in luck takes on greater meaning. In the comment to Han, Ben is encapsulating all the machinations (by the Force and Palpatine's conspiracy to overthrow the Republic) that conspired to bring everyone where they are up to this point and beyond. I'm not saying anything against freewill just that there are 'forces' beyond the Force itself manipulating people's destiny.
  Darth Rex0
So be it....
date Posted: Nov 15, 2005 10:55 AM
I totally agree with your last post Kenobi-fan. To me, when it comes to fate in SW, it is hard to tell sometimes what is Force manipulation, or free-will. I agree that in light of the prequels, we know of what experience Obi-Wan is referring to. Especially since he is the student of Qui-Gonn who preached that "nothing happens by coincidence". We should also remember that Qui-Gonn was not part of the council for his thinking outside the code, but events that happened made it seem that he was more in line with the Force than the council was at that time.
  Bomberman6_5
date Posted: Nov 15, 2005 11:30 AM
Just another add comment that might be helpful in the RotS game Obi-Wan is going to help out the clone troopers and one says to Obi-Wan "Good luck sir" and then Obi-Wan replys "I my experience theres no such thing" so i thought that might be helpful or if not interesting.
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Nov 15, 2005 2:12 PM
Darth Rex0 -
Yes, I like that you pointed to Qui-Gon for continuity. I think Kenobi had seen enough to really believe what Qui-Gon said regarding there being 'no coincidences'.

As far as the ROTS game is concerned, it's interesting that they would include that line.
  jedimaster9459D
A Jedi Master's Mindset
date Posted: Nov 15, 2005 4:53 PM
What happend to "If I wasn't here, I'd be somewhere else"??????
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Nov 15, 2005 5:51 PM
I never really liked that title. Besides, I never thought anyone would notice.
  cestus183
date Posted: Nov 15, 2005 8:34 PM
i take that comment literally-no such thing as luck-the first time i heard it:D
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Nov 16, 2005 7:07 AM
i take that comment literally-no such thing as luck-the first time i heard it

I don't know how there can be anything like luck in the Star Wars universe. Everything would appear to be guided by some 'force' towards some destiny unknown to the person living his/her life. It's like some weird version of chaos-theory, where seemingly unrelated events are actually linked together in way no one could have imagined. I'm not sure what that says about free-will but as far as Star Wars is concerned, it sure seems to say something about cause and effect.
  JediKnight Harlesc Mondrum
The Star Wars saga... Beautiful from start to conclusion.
date Posted: Nov 16, 2005 7:29 AM
Kenobi-fan
I think luke already realized that there were forces (the Evil Empire) moving to crush the rebellion and stop him that were beyond his control but Ben Kenobi wanted to emphasize that the choice of wether or not to follow the dark side and the Empire was entirely up to him. Obi-Wan knew in my opinion bringing luck into it would be just an excuse for not being responsible for the choices that Luke would make. An example would be: Oh! I never had any of the advantages that people who are wealthy have when I was growing up so I'm going to go out and rob a bank. Obi-Wan didn't want luke to fall into the same way of thinking that I think was one of the reasons why Anakin decided to turn to the dark side.
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Nov 16, 2005 8:35 AM
JKHM
I don't disagree with your assessment of Kenobi's statement. However, given all we know about the Palpatine's intricate behind-the-scenes maneuverings, I find his statement to Han (and subsequently to Luke) that there were things going on in the galaxy that made 'chance' meetings something to be wary of. Indeed, Kenobi wanted both Han and Luke to act responsibly but I find Kenobi's statement something of back-handed warning. Luke may have chosen to follow Kenobi, but he had no idea what he (and Han) was involved in or what Ben (and Yoda, Bail, Vader, Palpy, and the Force via the Prophecy) had in store for them. Did Han ever know that Chewie helped Yoda escape Palpatine's order to destroy the Jedi???
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