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Echoes from the Asteroid Field
by: anakinside1
date posted: May 02, 2007 3:29 PM  | 
updated: May 02, 2007 3:35 PM
"Why Good People Do Bad Things"
Not long ago I got to go an amazing talk by Dr. James Hollis, and my good friend MO2YP has encouraged me to share what I learned there here. It was called Why Good People Do Bad Things, and I am sure any dedicated SW fan can believe such a topic would be relevant to almost any character in our beloved saga as it is overflowing with people who would fit the description of a good person doing a bad thing. Even characters like Palpatine or Tarkin would probably fit that description if someone were willing to mine their pasts with the sort of detail given to Vader's.

The talk surprised me in lots of ways because on some level I had expected a talk about other people, when really it was a talk aimed as much at me as every other person in the room including Hollis himself. At its core was this bit of wisdom: "nothing human is alien to me." We all contain the entire spectrum of human possibility from love to hate and everything in between. The issue is not that we feel, but what we do with our feelings. Luckily for us there are people out there like George Lucas who are paying attention to all of the things we do and say when we're not thinking and then mirror them back to us in characters like Anakin, Padme, Luke and Leia (now there's a dysfunctional family if I ever saw one!).

In Jungian Psychology there's this concept of The Shadow. Everyone has one, and it consists of everything that contradicts what a person likes to think about themselves. For instance, I like to think of myself as a "nice" person, but just the other day at the supermarket I was confused about how the lines worked (it was a new place and set up in an odd way), and an old man came up to me and said, "Which line are you in?" I started to say "I'm not really sure how it works. I think there's one line and you just go to the register that opens up first...." But he cut me off and just repeated "Which line are you in?" To which I snapped "Why don't you go in that line and I'll go in this one!?":O :8} It came out of "no where" anger just bubbling up like lava on Mustafar. That's Shadow. In my case it was unconscious anger that came to the surface and snapped out at some poor person, :(and afterwards I felt ashamed that it all gushed out like that in such an out of control way.

Now Shadow can be expressed in many ways and is often the reason politicians and clergy get in so much trouble. They appear on the surface to set and live by a high moral standard and then low and behold some priests are abusing children and everyone's covering it up, or the congressman dedicated to keeping kids safe from predators on the web is text messaging the underage pages (or something like that).

Another important idea is that Shadow is also what we are unaware of in ourselves because it is unacceptable to our sense of self. My being angry violates what I like to believe about myself, so when my husband said my anger frightened him at times I was shocked. I was so unaware that I was angry I thought it was a feeling that I rarely expressed - little did I know how much I seethed because it hid out in my unconscious.

Anyways there are four basic ways that the Shadow operates in people, and of course in SW:

First, there is the time honored repress and suppress. The Jedi Order was great at this one. Pretend all that nasty stuff just isn't there. It's practically written into their code: There is no emotion there's only the Force. :|I think a greater truth would be: There is emotion and there is the Force. Some other choice examples from the JO would be: "The Sith have been extinct for a millennium." ?:|and "I don't think the Sith could have returned without our knowing it." ]:)and " The council is confident in its decision Obi-Wan" :p and "Anakin escort the senator back home to Naboo." :x :x But just because the Jedi turned away from an issue doesn't mean it wasn't there. Meanwhile the Shadow contaminates interactions (Palpatine) and comes out in moments surprising everybody (Maul) until it's swept under the rug again (or until things get so bad the whole system comes crashing down - like the clergy abuse scandal or the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire). Anakin is also phenomenal when it comes to repress and suppress. Padme actually offers him the best advice he's ever gotten when it comes to anger: "To be angry is to be human." If Anakin could have let that in his anger would have stopped controlling him from behind the scenes. But Anakin can't tolerate anger in himself (or fear). It violates what he would like to believe is true about him as a Jedi. Another good example is "Jedi don't have nightmares." Why ever shouldn't they? Nightmares are nothing more than information. Anakin is human and "nothing human is alien to him.", but he was stuck in a system (as we all are) that in some ways didn't allow him to be himself.

Secondly, there is projecting the Shadow onto someone else. "It's all Obi-Wan's fault. He's jealous! He's holding me back!" Obviously Anakin is the one who's jealous here, but he won't admit it so he gives that feeling to Obi-Wan who I'm pretty sure doesn't even have a jealous bone in his body.

Third is possession by identification. The classic example is Anakin becoming Vader. He identifies with all of that darkness and in a way becomes it. Interestingly enough Padme also fits here, and the name of her alter ego is Mrs. Skywalker. This is the reason for her sudden "out of character" behavior in marrying Anakin and doing what she said she never would: live a lie. Think of it. If her story was front page news in your paper tomorrow: Prominent politician found to be involved in a secret affair with a powerful member of the (supposedly) celibate clergy. You'd be surprised for half a second until you remembered "She's a politician and they're not to be trusted." But all kidding aside, even a person like Padme, with loving parents and a solid education who seems as steady as they come is susceptible to Shadow - because she's human just like us.

Finally, we have Shadow becoming more conscious, a kind of facing your demons. This is the last option, and the one that could help save the world (and does save the GFFA). The thing about what we repress or project or allow to possess us is that it will eventually rear its ugly head and spill out over all we hold dear in the world if we don't try to understand our motives that hide even from ourselves. Anakin's potential to be Vader was born practically when Anakin was born. Many people including myself have written about how his time as a Sith Lord was basically nothing more than a repetition of his younger life as a slave. Anakin himself would never have admitted that or understood that. He was too unaware. According to Anakin he was freed the moment Watto lost him betting on the Pod-Races, but we know his freedom took decades longer to win. The truth is (according to Jung and Hollis) that we all have these places of unawareness, and our only hope to keep from just re-playing and re-playing all the old crap that lives in the dark corners of our minds is instead to become aware of it and bring it out into the light. For instance, my new mission is to acknowledge my anger whenever it comes up. So, I can let it go and it doesn't explode. We all have "Vader" moments, the point is to acknowledge them and learn from them, not ignore them. It's hard and humbling, but it's the best chance for growth. The problem is that the Shadow is literally what we are unconscious and unaware of. The trick is to catch it in those moments when it bubbles up (like when I was in line at the supermarket). Anger isn't bad ("to be angry is to be human") but repressed and suppressed anger (or fear, or birds and bees issues, or you name it) is what leads to "Good people doing bad things."

That's what I got from the lecture, but there was another point that was missing that I think SW helps to illuminate which is: Why "bad" people do "good" things. When I heard the idea of the Shadow coming out by being possessed by it and identifying with it (again Anakin becoming Vader) I couldn't help but wonder what happens to the "good" side and all of the qualities we associate with goodness like compassion, trust, connection, and love when someone is possessed by the dark side. It seems to me to make sense that when someone identifies with their Shadow side that it is in some ways no longer Shadow. It is that person's new mode of operation. It is what they now think of themselves. The things that run counter to that view like compassion, trust, connection, and love are now the new Shadow. These repressed ideas then come out in moments to the surprise of everybody. For instance, when Vader doesn't kill Luke in ESB though he clearly has the advantage. Vader shows mercy at absolutely no other time up until this point. His mercy is as "out of character" as lying was for Padme. Not only that when Vader's trap doesn't work and he can't just freeze his son in carbonite to cart him off to the Emperor his new Shadow takes over and I think part of him believes that if Luke just knew about the truth of their relationship the strength of that connection would cause Luke to join him. It was weirdly a test of love, and a completely bungled attempt to reach out - to connect.

Another example is when Vader can sense Luke on Endor when Palpatine cannot. To me that demonstrates a deepening connection, something that Vader hasn't really had with another human being since the end of the ROTS. In ROTJ Palpatine asks if Vader's feelings on "this matter (of his son) are clear." Vader answers yes, he's ready and willing to turn his son to the dark side. I don't think Vader even realizes he's lying, because the goodness being expressed is coming from his new Shadow, and that Shadow consists of all the good things he tried to banish from himself when he began to believe that he was a bad person.

Lastly, the most purely evil character in the Saga, Palpatine, who seems entirely possessed by the dark side from moment one is undone by the trust and compassion he buries in himself and doesn't acknowledge. It is significant that the only tender moment he ever displays is towards Anakin's smoking remains on Mustafar. Also, in the ROTS novelization Mace realizes right before he dies that Palpatine trusts Anakin. As Ian McDiramid puts it "Anakin means something to him." His trust is so ingrained and so blind that the Emperor believes he can kill Luke right in front of his own father and Vader won't do a thing. Well, I guess it's true Vader didn't lift a finger - that was Anakin. To me this is what makes Anakin/Vader so compelling. He's a complete character. He runs the whole spectrum. Nothing human is alien to him and I think in the end he understands that.

MTFBWY:x

  Jedi Master Mina
Another Galaxy, another time
date Posted: May 02, 2007 3:56 PM
Ha, first to comment...WOOHOO. Gosh, I get so excited over simple things.

Very compelling blog, my dear. Anger is a natural emotion, yet as a society it is the one emotion we try to repress the most. Interesting lecture, indeed. ;)

Phew, long blog. :^O
  jkthunder
Seven Pieces
date Posted: May 02, 2007 4:48 PM
It's so wonderful to sit with your words. Even though I have some different perspectives on things, reading your views widens mine.An argument I would have about the Shadow concept is that it doesn't exist in the subconscious. I think it's very much there in our conscious minds and affects the decisions we make, bit I think the ego/personality is what tries to deny responsibility for it, and therefor we convince ourselves that the Shadow is subconscious and not necessarily in our control. It's a subtle "point of view" discrepancy type thing. Our ego is not our consciousness, unless we let it:D
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 02, 2007 5:31 PM
Anger is a natural emotion, yet as a society it is the one emotion we try to repress the most.
So true! I think that's one of the reasons Anakin is so popular. He gets to do what we only dream about. Sorry 'bout the long blog! Sometimes I just think the topic is worth it. :D

jk, actually I think we agree mostly. I think the Shadow is made up of things our egos prefer to deny, and it's because we prefer to deny them that they linger at a level just below conscious awareness. Because they linger at that unaware level these repressed aspects of ourselves are more likely then to control our lives.
  Jade Sabre777
A luminous being, I am...
date Posted: May 02, 2007 5:33 PM
Wow, awesome blog!
If Anakin could have let that in his anger would have stopped controlling him from behind the scenes.....
So true! He needed to accept that everybody has flaws, even the Jedi. What's important is that people work to fix those flaws. That always bugged me how he seemed to need to be this perfect, flawless, fearless, nightmareless Jedi that never messed up or needed help or anything. I wonder where he got that idea? From everyone saying he was the Chosen One? Or did he just idolize the Jedi too much? I just wanted to say: "Ani, don't worry about it! Nobody is perfect, and it's okay to admit that you sometimes need help or are afraid or whatever!!" Yeah, I'm one of those people that talks to movies.... :D
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 02, 2007 5:34 PM
cont.
I think the Shadow can be brought more into control, but only if the ego is willing to become aware of that which is difficult to acknowledge. Just because something is Shadow doesn't mean it never comes out, it comes out all the time but because of the shame that brings it's quickly "forgotten." I also don't think that there is such a clear line between conscious and unconscious. I think it's just that the parts that we don't like surface and then are cut off so quickly we can convince ourselves that they were never there.

Thanks for the comments! :D
  jediprincess77
I Know...
date Posted: May 02, 2007 5:35 PM
What an intriguing concept. I always look forward to reading your thought-provoking entries.:)

It's a little frightening to think about Padme's Shadow tendencies...after all, if SHE has such darkness lurking in her, we are all vulnerable.

The things that run counter to that view like compassion, trust, connection, and love are now the new Shadow.
I'm so glad you brought this up! As I was reading through the first part of your entry, I was thinking about bad people doing good things, and how it just plain doesn't seem to make sense most of the time. I think what you've said here is dead on.
  jediprincess77
I Know...
date Posted: May 02, 2007 5:35 PM
This is such a difficult topic to talk honestly about, because it is something we often try to deny or suppress. I know I/ hate to admit (and certainly do not admit often enough) that Vader rears his ugly head in my thoughts and actions.

Well done, AS1!:x
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 02, 2007 5:40 PM
Yeah, I'm one of those people that talks to movies...
LOL! I was all by myself in the house this weekend and I kept shouting at the screen hoping the characters would hear me and win the race or get the girl or whatever!!!:8} I'm glad I'm not alone! I think you're right that Ani put a lot of pressure on himself for being the chosen one. Luke is told twice in ANH that "there was nothing you could have done," in the face of a loved one dying, and both times he accepts it whereas Ani couldn't tolerate not being all powerful at 19. I think the difference between the two was the level of expectation. Luke was a farmer at that point, Ani was a teenager who was expected to bring balance to the Force.
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 02, 2007 5:44 PM
It's a little frightening to think about Padme's Shadow tendencies...after all, if SHE has such darkness lurking in her, we are all vulnerable.
I couldn't agree more. That's part of why I put her there. Most of us aren't as extreme as Anakin. Most of us try to conduct ourselves with some level of awareness, and yet here's this upstanding citizen and even she has a HUGE blind spot!

This is such a difficult topic to talk honestly about, because it is something we often try to deny or suppress.
I agree, but I also found it so comforting to finally realize that I'm not alone. Everyone has to deal with this, and that makes it easier to be compassionate towards self and others when we have our Vader moments!:x
  jedilily1026
Years Matter Not (Gone Crazy...Be Back Soon)
date Posted: May 02, 2007 5:54 PM
First menopause...now The Shadow. LOL

Interesting read my friend.

"nothing human is alien to me." We all contain the entire spectrum of human possibility from love to hate and everything in between.

This I do understand. Being "older" I admit to having experienced some strange emotions during my lifetime. Kind of scary at times...but reasoning & control always prevail.
  leia19886
Someone get this big walking carpet out of my way ...
date Posted: May 02, 2007 6:10 PM
Very good read.

To quote Padme " To be angry is to be human."

Knowing when to let go of the anger is when we start to understand our
humanity.

Leia
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 02, 2007 6:17 PM
Kind of scary at times...but reasoning & control always prevail.
That's the best we can do, I think! (That is funny The Change and The Shadow! LOL!) :x

To quote Padme " To be angry is to be human."
Knowing when to let go of the anger is when we start to understand our
humanity.
Leia

Put those together and you have a pretty complete picture. I knew there was a reason those women were worth listening to. :D
  GalacticBabe
I Have a Bad Feeling About This!
date Posted: May 02, 2007 7:35 PM
Absolutely spectacular, AS1! :x

It's ironic, the thought of a shadow--the "light" has to be obscured for it to exist. The dark side of the Force is one big shadow. both physically and emotionally.

I can totally relate to the whole "Shadow" concept in my personal life.

1) Just ignore all the bad stuff and maybe it will go away. I'm waaay too good at that, but you know, the bad stuff never goes away!
2) Nothing is ever my fault---RIGHT! I realize that I am not infallible, I'm human!
3) Ditto! I'm human!

cont...grrr!!!

  GalacticBabe
I Have a Bad Feeling About This!
date Posted: May 02, 2007 7:36 PM
4) The thing about what we repress or project or allow to possess us is that it will eventually rear its ugly head and spill out over all we hold dear in the world I think I understand your point here......Sometimes it's good to let the anger out, if you don't, if you keep it all bottled up, you're more likely to explode to someone you love. And there are some people who can never just forgive and forget. Some people can hold a grudge for years.

You know the long handled brush you use to get the lint out of your dryer with? That's what I feel like you blogs are. They help me keep the lint trap between my ears clear. Strange analogy, I know. :p

Good job!:)
  viagoangel2
Are you an Angel?
date Posted: May 02, 2007 7:37 PM
Wow! This whole entry just blew me away:) You never cease to amaze me. Always, always you find a way to show me the Saga in a whole new light, absolutely astonishing!
Makes me miss you and our little "quartet" all the more:( Alas, we have 21 days left until we are reunited!:D Yay!

I honestly have nothing to add here, you've covered all concepts and aspects beautifully, Well done! (((((HUGS)))))
:x
  Michelle1968
M68- Star Wars Kid at Heart
date Posted: May 02, 2007 8:09 PM
Damn. You are the best combination of talent and delightfulness I've seen in these here parts in a while, girl. Very nice. Such pertinency.... with a little dash of humor. :D

Very enjoyable entry...

(((hugs))) :x
  padmeskywalker77
Padme's Legacy
date Posted: May 03, 2007 12:04 AM
Absolutely amazing, my friend :x

The thing about what we repress or project or allow to possess us is that it will eventually rear its ugly head and spill out over all we hold dear in the world


So true!! I have projected some of my repressed anger/frustration at co-workers (since my family is so far away, it is difficult to project onto them)...and they know to stay away until I *cool off.* I also tend to think of myself as a *nice person,* but I occasionally find myself surprised by my reaction to the slightest things.

To be angry really is to be human.

Again...fantastic job!! :x
  jkthunder
Seven Pieces
date Posted: May 03, 2007 12:39 AM
OMG - I'm sorry about my atrocious spelling before!

This is a great discussion and of course we could go on forever, since it's all based on theory and perspective (and what we're willing to believe) anyway. I guess I always struggle with the two option limitations, and I agree with you that there is no distinct line between what is conscious and subconscious, since it is a pretty subjective issue - reality that is LOL!

Consciousness has many different contexts too, of course, and isn't necessarily the same animal as "conscience". Different aspects take over in different circumstances - like when we get "blinded by love" or overwhelmed by clarity in the face of devastation.

But conscience...
  jkthunder
Seven Pieces
date Posted: May 03, 2007 12:42 AM
I can't help but have to bring "something else" into the picture. Call it an atman, witness, pure awareness, or what have you. Of course the ego wants all the attention, and Shadow is willing to sit idly by and stew... but it's that other thing that's mediating the two - hopefully and to some extent. I think Shadow and ego are both opportunists, and either will pile their layers as thickly as possible at any chance. That's what I mean by consciousness not being limited to the ego, and the Shadow not being relegated to the subconscious.

Have you ever read Ken Wilbur? I think you might be interested in what he has to say. I don't know why, but he just popped into my head.
  Darth_Hiram
A Journey into The Force
date Posted: May 03, 2007 3:26 AM
A great entry! and I got your comment on my blog about similar entries, and you're right! and I agree with what you say about Anakin / Vader. Anakin did prove to himself and Luke about who he really was when he was the one who destroyed the Sith ... he really did fulfill his true destiny.
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 03, 2007 4:53 AM
I can totally relate to the whole "Shadow" concept in my personal life.
Me too!

You know the long handled brush you use to get the lint out of your dryer with? That's what I feel like you blogs are. They help me keep the lint trap between my ears clear. Strange analogy, I know. It's not strange it's actually incredibly kind! Thank you. :x

Alas, we have 21 days left until we are reunited!
I am so excited about that! I can't believe it! :x

Very enjoyable entry...
Thanks! :D

I also tend to think of myself as a *nice person,* but I occasionally find myself surprised by my reaction to the slightest things.
Thanks for your honesty. It's always nice to know you're not alone! :D
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 03, 2007 5:12 AM
jk, I totally get where you're coming from with atma (soul) and pure awareness. I believe we have that too. Also, I'm not using "ego" here with it's negative connotations, but just as a term for our sense of I-ness and how we function in the world. When Leia finds out Luke is her brother she says "I know. Somehow I've always known." The question is what part of her knew? I think atma knew, but her ego didn't know until Luke said something. Then her sense of I-ness is aligned with what her pure awareness always knew. Right after that she goes into Shadow.....
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 03, 2007 5:19 AM
....with "Luke run away." She lets her fear of losing her family again speak instead of her pure awareness. Where a person operates from just depends on which part of themselves they're in touch with at that moment. There'll be as many ideas about this as people, so I won't speak about Truth, but just what's true for me in my experience. I think there are many aspects to us the trick is acknowledging them all and figuring out which part of you is in charge at any given moment. As with the example with Leia the part that's in charge can change from sentence to sentence. :D Cool stuff, thanks for bringing atma into the conversation!

he really did fulfill his true destiny.
Absolutely! Thanks for checking this out. :D
  hansgirl3
Invoking the Squee
date Posted: May 03, 2007 6:43 AM
it. Interestingly enough Padme also fits here, and the name of her alter ego is Mrs. Skywalker. This is the reason for her sudden "out of character" behavior

I think this is one of my biggest "aha's" in this amazing entry. It truly helps to shed light where there wasn't any. It never made much sense for Padme to suddenly go against everything she had ever done or said (except for the fact that sometimes people do really strange things when they're in love...).

Cont...
  hansgirl3
Invoking the Squee
date Posted: May 03, 2007 6:44 AM
This all reminds me of a concept in another movie that I hold dear... The concept is "monsters from the id" from Forbidden Planet. YOur discussion of "Shadow" truly reminds me of that. Throughout my life I've uttered those words, "monsters from the id" whenever I do something "bad" that goes against what I normally do.

Great entry!!! :x
The Stooge
Star Wars Joke-A-Day
date Posted: May 03, 2007 6:56 AM
Whoa, heavy stuff! But fascinating and so well-written that even I could understand it. Kudos!
And I love the idea that Palpatine didn't even know about the compassion inside of him... that bit of him on the Mustafar shores in ROTS perfectly foreshadows the cause of his downfall in ROTJ. Brilliant!
  JediMelindaWolf
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
date Posted: May 03, 2007 7:32 AM
This was incredible, and I'm going to mull over what you've shared with us, dear ami. You never cease to get me thinking on a myriad of levels. It's time to digest. I will be back later, and, if there still is room here, I will comment. If not, I'll drop you an email. I am sure it won't be short. ;)


Wow! :D


MTFBWY :)
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 03, 2007 8:41 AM
monsters from the id
AWESOME! I'm so glad you shared that with me. Id is actually a term from Freudian psychology. According to him in a person there's id (which is the level of instinct and urges), super ego (what society wants of us - usually it reigns in the id) and then the ego is constantly running back and forth trying to serve the desires of id and shoulds of the super ego! That phrase expresses it perfectly: "monsters from the id." I think I'll begin using it myself, and I think I'll have to rent that movie! :x

  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 03, 2007 8:41 AM
Stooge, Thanks :D You give yourself too little credit!

I'm going to mull over what you've shared with us, dear ami
Freudian slip?!:D LOL! Actually I was thinking of you as I wrote this. I think you had a Shadow entry a while back. I'd love to hear your thoughts anytime. :D
  MomOf2YoungPadawan
Mamadala's Lair
date Posted: May 03, 2007 9:03 AM
Sooooooooooo glad you decided to post this! :D

This whole topic just mesmerizes me beyond explaination! You know how I feel about this from our discussions, but it would be so very interesting to figure out our own Shadows - that way, we could learn and grow.

I'm still waiting for you to psychoanalyze me, my friend ;)

Excellently-written entry, as always! :x
  jkthunder
Seven Pieces
date Posted: May 03, 2007 10:49 AM
Love that example of Leia's "I've always known" (sorry to take up so much space!). I agree, it's moment by moment, and I think the mentorship between Luke and Obi Wan is exemplary of that vs someone coming into a higher state of awareness, acceptance, and therefore "control". Luke is teetering when Ben explains what really happened to Vader. Ben's statement about "a certain point of view", to me, shows his compassion to Luke's readiness to absorb that reality. He really couldn't until after he (or his Shadow and ego) was humbled by Yoda's training - and in his awareness he also "somehow knew" that Leia was his sister. He could finally accept, understand, and let "awareness" guide his actions to seek the good in his father/confront Vader.
  amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: May 03, 2007 1:38 PM
If JMW made a Freudian slip along those lines, I am flattered beyond words. I've been thinking about this subject for a long time now...

Palpatine's one, brief flash of compassion, the way he touches Anakin so gently, in such a paternal way on Mustafar, has always fascinated me. Why? How? Does that emotion even exist in him? His Shadow explains it.

Shadow may explain some of me, too, and how I relate to Anakin so strongly, so completely. I, too, believe that we all possess the entire spectrum of emotions, yet which ones come to the forefront and which remain in the shadows seems so arbitrary. (con't)
  amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: May 03, 2007 1:41 PM
How is it fair that one person can use her sense of content and fulfillment to better the world, while the next person can't abide a sense of contentment at all? How can two people have the exact same things and only one of them be satisfied with them? Why does the same horrendous experience turn one man to crime and turn another man to compassion? Apparently, our shadows are as unique as any other aspect of our personalities. Perhaps it's a matter of how we're brought up and how we're taught from and early age. SOme people are taught to have bigger shadows than others (con't)...

  brooklooineghost
Just a simple mom trying to make my way in the (expanded) universe
date Posted: May 03, 2007 1:44 PM
Even characters like Palpatine or Tarkin would probably fit that description if someone were willing to mine their pasts with the sort of detail given to Vader's.

Interesting . . . I graduated from undegrad with a psych degree, but never really considered becoming a therapist because I found it difficult for me to empathize with folks who had done 'dark' things, even if I knew there were things in their past that might have driven them to that point.

Being an old lady now (LOL), when I listen to the news and hear that someone has commited some heinous crime, my feelings of concern for their victimes & families is usually followed by the thought of how terrible someone's life must be to lead them to such a place.
  amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: May 03, 2007 1:44 PM
Don't know if I am even remotely making sense...but maybe some of us are brought up to have stronger shadows, stronger senses of what should be hidden in ourselves than others. Some people are taught to embrace every part of themselves and others are taught to keep "bad" emotions at bay at all costs. This would explain Padme's ability to embrace her own Dark Side and marry Anakin. And what a shame that marrying the man she loved had to be kept in the shadows at all...

I have NO TIME right now, but this FASCINATES me, and I might come back and blab some more.

THANK YOU for sharing this, as1!! :x
  brooklooineghost
Just a simple mom trying to make my way in the (expanded) universe
date Posted: May 03, 2007 1:48 PM
(con't)

the notion of the potential for the full spectrum of acts (evil to good) being hard-wired into us from jump really fascinates me. It's one of the reasons I loved the NJO (despite the fact that it gave me headaches at times) and have grown to love Jacen's character in spite of myself. Yes, he can be whiny, but his quest to understand the totality of the Force (or Potentium, as Vergere & Sekot describe it) is an admirable (and, IMO, necessary) one.

Once again, thanks for giving me something to sink my teeth into, especially these days when I have been missing my twin brother Rogueish so awfully (*sniff, sniff*)
  JediPug1
Like My Father Before Me
date Posted: May 03, 2007 4:34 PM
Phew! Finally made it! :D

Awesome entry, AS1... and pretty heavy, too. I may have to re-read it it to get the full flavor. I've never been too familiar with Jung, but this was certainly a fascinating intro! Well thought out and perfectly executed.

My being angry violates what I like to believe about myself, so when my husband said my anger frightened him at times I was shocked.

Oooh! I can relate to that! People are usually quite shocked to see what a temper I've got... I seem so mild mannered most of the time, but underneath.... well..... it's not always pretty! :O

As I've aged, though, that anger has begun to fade.... much to my relief... and to the relief of those around me, I'm sure. ;)
  Skywalker's Fury
If nobody hears a tree fall in the forest - does it make a sound?
date Posted: May 04, 2007 12:58 PM
The things that run counter to that view like compassion, trust, connection, and love are now the new Shadow.
I like the oxymoronic connection here. The elements of the light, which are minutely present in those suffused with the dark side, is viewed as the Shadow by them. This then places the Shadow in a position not of darkness and/or evil, but rather opposing emotions that counter our self view. And naturally we as humans see anything that opposes us, or our view of us, as something to keep down and out of sight. Hence, the Shadow. According to you (and so very brilliantly ;) ) there are shadows of dark, as well as shadows of light. What a concept! I need to think on this a lot more.

Great blog!
  ewanandhaydenfan5
I Have You Now!
date Posted: May 08, 2007 8:07 AM
I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED THIS BLOG! Fascinating stuff!

First, there is the time honored repress and suppress.
One word: DENIAL :O

because she's human just like us.
Absolutely. She knew herself well regarding her professional/political skills, but she was naive and inexperienced when it came to romantic relationships. It's not surprising that this is where her Shadow would become evident.

To me this is what makes Anakin/Vader so compelling. He's a complete character.
Same here. This was a wonderful entry!
  Qui-Tom Servo loves Padme
You Must Unlearn What You Have Learned
date Posted: May 09, 2007 1:33 PM
Powerful entry as always. BTW, I loved your symbolism entry that is now too full for me to comment on. One of the great strengths of SW is the depth to many of the characters and how we can relate to them. In fact, you've got me thinking about my next entry.
  jkelly
There Is No Conflict
date Posted: May 10, 2007 7:53 PM
I read this a while ago but didn't have time to comment. Good thing, too, because something hit me like a flying box (I haven't read the comments, so maybe someone else mentioned it).

Note that Palps' "shadow" on the DS2 is a good thing (trust and compassion) and that Vader's "shadow" also helps out Luke.

"Shadow" is probably a bad translation because it implies dark, scary and unknown things. E.g., "lurking in the shadows."

It's really more like the other side of the coin or a matter/anti-matter thing. Or, going back to high school trigonometry, the inverse.
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 11, 2007 7:15 AM
In fact, you've got me thinking about my next entry.
Cool

"Shadow" is probably a bad translation because it implies dark, scary and unknown things. E.g., "lurking in the shadows."

I'm just using the term the Jungian analysts used, but it's absolutely true that it is often times just the other side of the coin. I think the "Shadow" concept does fit in that even the "good" parts of ourselves hide sometimes, and If something is "the other side of the coin" you can just turn it over (in a sense) and look at it whereas true Shadow is much harder to find.
  Fish1941
date Posted: May 13, 2007 1:45 AM
Has anyone ever read "The Long Bag We Drag Behind Us" by poet Robert Bly? It describes the shadow half of the human heart as a bag that we stuff full of all that we perceive to be undesirable so that we can function as an acceptable member of society. After years of behaving properly, of becoming nicer and nicer human beings, we suddenly find ourselves emotionally exhausted; and the contents of that bag come spilling out from that bag or from that shadow part of our heart, is a devolved, terrifyingly brutal creature that can only be described as ape-like, subhuman, even demonic.
  Fish1941
date Posted: May 13, 2007 1:47 AM
For Palpatine, that shadow can be his own potential for compassion and kindness that he has kept repressed for most of his life.
  anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
date Posted: May 14, 2007 6:08 AM
Fish1941

Very insightful. I think that artists have long recognized the Shadow and its affects. I'll have to check it out. :D
  jkelly
There Is No Conflict
date Posted: May 17, 2007 4:12 PM
Hard to find, the shadow is. Of course for some, it's also hard to find some coin.

I found a way to link this entry up to the hated San Antonio Spurs. Thanks for the inspiration. If you're interested, its up at The Tavern.
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