Star Wars: Blogs | Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka | The New Essential Chronology: Talkback thread

Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka

by: Dan Wallace

date posted: Oct 25, 2005 11:58 AM | updated: Jun 18, 2006 7:47 PM

The New Essential Chronology: Talkback thread

The New Essential Chronology has hit the stores, in both hardcover and paperback editions! This is the place to ask questions or record your observations.

I'm going to try to respond to quesions in the talkbacks below, and periodically update the main body with corrections or Easter Eggs.

Also, check out the excellent "endnotes" feature on the NEC here.

I'll get it started...

DYN (Did You Notice):
According to the intro, the New Essential Chronology is an in-universe document compiled by "Voren Na'al, Archivist Emeritus" for the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances. Voren Na'al originated in the original Star Wars Roleplaying Game by West End Games, in which he served as a rookie in-universe author for many of their roleplaying rulebooks. Voren hasn't been seen much since WEG's implosion in 1995, but as a fictional character, he seemed like the kind of guy who would get involved in a project like this. As "archivist emeritus," he's apparently moved up in the world.

CORRECTIONS:
- Several times in the New Jedi Order section, Anakin Solo's mission to Myrkr to destroy the voxyn cloning material is referred to as the "mission to Wayland." D'oh.

- Over on the TFN forums, it's pointed out that the NEC places the destruction of the Ubese homeworld (forcing the Ubese to wear breath masks like Leia in ROJ) at approx. 2000-1500 BBY -- however, the game Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords, set in 3951 BBY, features breathmasked Ubese. It's a discrepancy for now. (For the record, I placed the event where I did to correspond with WEG's Alien Anthology, and was unaware of KOTOR2's Ubese at the time.)

- The KOTOR2 section also describes the characters "Darth Kreia" and "Darth Traya," which is an error that I don't want to explain here (to avoid in-game spoilers). Between this and the Ubese, that's what I get for not playing KOTOR2 prior to writing this book.

- Two different timeframes are mentioned for the establishment of the Corellian Trade Spine hyperspace route: one that coincides with the establishment of the Rimma (circa 5500 BBY) and one that coincides with the Hydian (circa 3000 BBY). The first date is the correct one.

- Dorsk 81 is mistakenly mentioned as a Jedi casualty during the New Jedi Order... the correct name is Dorsk 82. (Dorsk 81 died much earlier during Darksaber.)

Dan
(writing projects and current releases)

http://blogs.starwars.com/danwallace/27

Click here to hide comments for this entry

	gdg_kenobi Granta Poodoo
date Posted: Oct 25, 2005 12:08 PM I picked up the book today and it looks great Excellent artwork. I had to email TLE and tell him how rockin' it looks. Haven't had a chance to read through it yet -- I'm lookin' forward to it!!

	Joe Corroney Drawing in the Empire
date Posted: Oct 25, 2005 1:14 PM Congrats on the book! Mine is on the way from Amazon.com, can't wait to read it!

	Barbie Jedi like, omg
date Posted: Oct 25, 2005 4:38 PM The artwork is stunningly beautiful (Cadet Han Solo is too cute for words!) but I did notice that Tahiri Veila seemed to look a little more red-headed than usual, and she lost her Yuuzhan Vong scars.. which made me mistake her for Mara until I saw the label under her picture.

	Pabawan Fragments from the Mind's Eye
date Posted: Oct 25, 2005 7:44 PM Check it out... the endnotes for the Chronology are now online for those wondering what the sources for the stories in this fantastic book are from: http://www.starwars.com/eu/lit/ref/f20051025/index.html

	philstar22 Rebel Empress
date Posted: Oct 25, 2005 8:07 PM HOw do they do the dating? Is it still based on the Battle of Yavin? This has never made sense to me. I think they should do it based on Endor. That would be the way that the New Republic and/or Galactic Alliance would do it. Why would they choose Yavin rather than the day the Emperor died?

bosco02

date Posted: Oct 25, 2005 10:07 PM

Is it just me, or does the two page spread on 10 and 11 look like an homage to Lord of the Rings? For example, notice the helmets of the soldiers. They look like the guards of Minas Tirith. Also, that one soldier in the center of the second page that looks like he is shooting an arrow, looks exactly like a soldier of Rohan from the movie. The pose looks even the same. Still, great art.

	Dan Wallace Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka
date Posted: Oct 26, 2005 6:32 AM Philstar22, I agree that it makes more sense in-universe for people to date from the Battle of Endor, but it doesn't work as well in the "real world." For better or worse people have become accustomed to dating things in relation to Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, and the Chronology follows that to minimize confusion.

	GreenLightsaber24 GL24's Expanded Universe...Thoughts, Databases, and more!
date Posted: Oct 26, 2005 6:41 AM Wow...that endnotes section is just as detailed as the book itself! You guys really went all out for this release!

Leland Y Chee
Keeper of the Holocron's Blog

date Posted: Oct 26, 2005 10:46 AM

The way I rationalize the dating in-universe is that there is so much of significance that occurs in and around A New Hope. The Rebels score a major military victory with the destruction of the Death Star. There is also an indirect political victory when sympathy towards the Rebellion increases after the destruction of Alderaan. It also marks the emergence of Luke Skywalker as a hero. From the Imperial perspective, it is the time that the Emperor disbands the Senate, the last vestage of the Old Republic. That alone would be excuse enough for the Emperor to want to restandardize calendars.

Favorite pic: Greedo's funeral.

	Darth NTM Do Nautolans Dream of Aquatic Sheep?
date Posted: Oct 27, 2005 12:02 AM Hi Dan, Question: 1) What was the reason for fixing the formation of the Sith at 7,000 BBY, rather than 25,000 BBY. 2) How is it that the Rakata did not notice the "sleeper ships" leaving Coruscant?

	Dan Wallace Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka
date Posted: Oct 27, 2005 7:07 AM Darth NTM, the 7000 BBY year date came from LFL internal documents. Since other sources had implied a formation of the Sith (or at least the existence of Dark Jedi) at 25,000 BBY, I included that too. Xendor, Arden Lyn, and the Legions of Lettow is a slight retconning of earlier EU elements.

Dan Wallace
Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka

date Posted: Oct 27, 2005 7:31 AM

Regarding the Rakata and sleeper ships, I don't have an official fix, but you're right that it's an issue that raises its head given the official dates of 27,500 BBY for the colonization of Alderaan and 25,200 BBY for the collapse of the Rakatan Empire. I would suggest that Rakatan rule over Coruscant and their other holdings waxed and waned over the centuries, with internal conflicts causing them to sometimes turn a blind eye to the doings of their colonies.

	Brother Jephso Dantooine Farmer's Weekly
date Posted: Oct 27, 2005 8:47 AM I own the SW Encyclopedia (Sansweet) and can't wait for the next one. What is the format of The New Essential Chronology, is it similar to the Encyclopedia and worth investing in?

	eddie Obsessive Fanboy Eddie and his Timeline Chronicles
date Posted: Oct 27, 2005 12:04 PM Its even better!!!! It is essentially a grand guide to the history of the SW universe (and my hardcover version should arrive within the next 5 days... Amazon, don't let me down...)

	SilverForce Delusions of Grandeur
date Posted: Oct 27, 2005 8:04 PM I'm looking forward to picking this up. The end notes article is great. With so many diverse sources (comics, books, games, etc.), it is interesting and helpful to know where the various references originated.

	Sompeetalay Sompeetalay's Source Blog
date Posted: Oct 27, 2005 10:57 PM that's what I get for not playing KOTOR2 prior to writing this book. < In my opinion games are created for leasure and fun. If KotOR II (a great game of course)is encorporated in the chronology what about 'Yoda Stories' and 'TESB' on NES where Luke defeats Vader ?

JMMC

date Posted: Oct 29, 2005 6:32 AM

What have you done? This book is packed with much more obscurity and details than the other. Do you realize how much time I'll need to spend reading this book and updating my timeline? I'll have to take a few days off from work, I guess...

But seriously, there's lots of great stuff in here. Lots of retconning by combining sources. And I was also glad to see more Marvel references in here than the last edition. I'm assuming that the larger focus on Lumiya these days may be based on her reportedly appearing in the Legacy of the Force books. Hope she has more than a cameo!

	The2ndquest Star Wars Literature
date Posted: Oct 31, 2005 2:27 PM Small error: The reference to Jedi being sacrificed by the Vong in the Birth of the Heretic Movement section mentions Dorsk 81, not 82. Additionally, I've noticed numerous examples of words being broken up by a space (such as "atmosph eric" instead of "atmospheric" throughout the book.

	eddie Obsessive Fanboy Eddie and his Timeline Chronicles
date Posted: Oct 31, 2005 11:03 PM JMMC, 'luckily'I am sick at home right now (and Amazon is due to deliver the book today or tomorrow), so I will have time enough to update my timeline (Clone Wars-era, as the rest is FAR from finished...)

	eddie Obsessive Fanboy Eddie and his Timeline Chronicles
date Posted: Nov 03, 2005 6:10 AM Just received the book, and it is looking marvelous (I consider it the Holocron to my collection of SW books). One question though, the dates given are in the 12-month system I presume?

	Brother Jephso Dantooine Farmer's Weekly
date Posted: Nov 04, 2005 7:59 AM I just received the book from Amazon, hardcover. From a quick glance, the art looks awesome. I look forward to reading.

	Dan Wallace Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka
date Posted: Nov 04, 2005 10:38 AM The BBY/ABY dates are given in decimals, so I suppose they could work with either the 10-month system or the 12-month system. But my writing preference is for the 12-month system, so if I made a reference to "half a year," it should be interpreted as 6 months.

	Dan Wallace Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka
date Posted: Nov 04, 2005 10:39 AM Quest, thanks for the Dorsk 81 catch, and I'll add it up top.

Rainbow Droideka
Aren't you a little short for an egg?

date Posted: Nov 05, 2005 4:27 AM

Darth NTM, the 7000 BBY year date came from LFL internal documents. Since other sources had implied a formation of the Sith (or at least the existence of Dark Jedi) at 25,000 BBY, I included that too. Xendor, Arden Lyn, and the Legions of Lettow is a slight retconning of earlier EU elements.

So does that mean the term "First Great Schism" (absent from the book I believe) refers to the 25,000 BBY dark Jedi, but not the original Sith Lords? I'm still struggling with this 7,000 BBY thing...

Great book though. Unfortunately I haven't read much of it yet - I've had to force myself away from reading it because I know it will suck away all the time I need to spend studying for midterm exams.

achim9
Xendor's Journal of the Whills

date Posted: Nov 05, 2005 1:58 PM

For MINIONS OF XENDOR all available material about the Great Shism, Xendor, Arden Lyn, the Kashi Mer culture, the Followes of Palawa, the war and exodus of the Dark Jedi and their arrival on Korriban including the subjugating of the Sith tribes were collected, screened and put together. Without any offense I find it very difficult to accept the use of "internal documents" without the slightest annotations putting existing sources in doubt or neglecting bits like the Kashi Mer culture. From what I feel the main aim of the book was to put thing right, bringing bits and peices together - not rewriting STAR WARS history, not neglecting existing material.

	achim9 Xendor's Journal of the Whills
date Posted: Nov 05, 2005 2:01 PM Sorry, me again. MINIONS OF XENDOR is a fanfilm project which is set 25.000 years before Yavin dealing with all mentioned aspects and written as canon as possible. Parts of our screenplay plus an animatics teaser were handed over to Rick McCallum minutes before the premiere of RotS.

	Leland Y Chee Keeper of the Holocron's Blog
date Posted: Nov 09, 2005 11:12 AM I use decimals for the internal calendars I use as reference strictly because dates are stored as a number in the Holocron database for ease in sorting. It has nothing to do with the 10-month system.

	Dan Wallace Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 6:31 AM Achim, I hear what you're saying, but the Dark Jedi contact with the Sith is dated at approx 7000 BBY. This was set in LFL's own dating documents. That doesn't mean that the Arden Lyn/Kashi Mer/Minions of Xendor events didn't happen at 25,000 BBY (all are referenced as such in the NEC), just that those events didn't lead directly into the Dark Jedi/Sith setup.

	JMMC
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 7:17 AM This may not be the right place to ask this, but in the Adumar section of the book, I was wondering who or what was the source for the picture of Tycho? I recognize Wedge, Janson and Hobbie from ESB. The picture looks a little familiar to me, but I can't place it. JMM

	Dan Wallace Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka
date Posted: Dec 06, 2005 1:10 PM JMM, sorry, but I'm not sure what pic the artist was using as reference for Tycho.

	Mike Beidler The Scourge of the Nevoota Blog
date Posted: Dec 29, 2005 9:49 AM Dan, Mike Beidler here. Congrats on your recent SW achievements. Of course, reading your recent works will have to wait until I return from the Middle East in February. I look forward to skimming through the Chronology and, inevitably, emailing you with questions! Best, Mike

	AndyH81 Frozen in Carbonite
date Posted: Jan 09, 2006 9:10 PM Hey Dan Wallace, we're talking about your book over on my blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/frozenincarbonite/2 I'd really appreciate it if you answered our questions, specifically, from what source did you base your claim that Pagueis created Anakin? Did you invent that yourself? Did George Lucas give you the OK? Or did you get it from an EU story/novel/comic?

Lord Scourge
Sith Massassi Temple

date Posted: Jan 12, 2006 6:20 PM

Dan,

I'm also having a problem with the 7000 BBY dating for the Dark Jedi reaching the Sith homeworld, as other sources make references to Sith activities well before then. The easiest example I have is from the Essential Guide to Vehicle and Vessels, which says Republic Fleet Systems was founded 15,000 BBY in response to Sith-backed uprisings - but I'm pretty sure this throws a number of dates from Tales of the Jedi Companion out the window as well.

Also, don't those early notes from Lucas vaguely refer to the Sith having a similar relationship to the Legions of Lettow, as the Jedi have to the Bendu? Why would 18,000 years pass between the fall of the Lettow and the rise of the Sith?

many thanks,

-Scourge

Darth Reavous

date Posted: Jan 27, 2006 10:32 PM

I have a question on the whole year thing myself though I'm not sure where it should go.

Did the EU come up with the 25,000 year mark before or after the SW prequels?
Because if they came out after then it is actually terribly off. By over 23,000 years.
As I understand it coming from strictly George Lucas' story, from TPM, AOTC, and ROTS listen carefully to everything said from Yoda, Mace, and Palpatine. The years they site for the age of the Galactic Republic is about 1000 years.
"I will ot let this Republic that has stood for a thousand years, be broken in two."
-Chancelor Palpatine -AOTC
So which came first?

Lord Scourge
Sith Massassi Temple

date Posted: Jan 30, 2006 10:20 PM

The EU came up with the 25,000 year figure well before the Prequel trilogy, based on Obi-Wan's line in ANH, "For a thousand generations, the Jedi were..." - the rough "thousand generations" was turned into exactly 25,000 years.

However, they have also made it clear that the Old Republic somewhat collapsed and was reformed with a new constitution 1000 years before the movies. It's like asking, "how old is Russia?" From one point of view, Russia dates back to 860 or earlier, and from another, the constitution of the current Russian Federation dates to 1991. So Russia is either more than a thousand years old, or just recently turned 15.

Hedec Ga
War Journal of Hedec Ga

date Posted: Feb 13, 2006 8:14 PM

Hey, Dan. No doubt this is a very old blog and no one will probably ever see this (except I'm guessing you'll get an e-mail notice or something) but I just stumbled upon this blog in my bored wanderings and I have to say...

You guys who work out this canon are my heroes. I've read all the complaints/questions/concerns about timelines and dates and etc. and, just the fact that you keep all this stuff in your head (and on many yellow sticky notes) and are able to make these things fit (for the most part) and able to answer all these questions...

Wow. Loved the book. Love what you guys do. I think you all are a highly UNDER appreciated group.

Many thanks,
Hedec Ga

Dan Wallace
Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka

date Posted: Feb 15, 2006 12:55 PM

Lord Scourge, the 7000 year date for the Dark Jedi contacting the Sith was in existence prior to my work on the NEC... that said, I don't have an immediate fix for any Sith references that pre-date that. In the interest of covering all possible bases, I'd say it's likely that some writer in the future may want to involve the Sith very early in the Republic timeline, and it might be in our interests as fans to prep a possible fix.

	Dan Wallace Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka
date Posted: Feb 15, 2006 12:59 PM Hedec Ga, thanks for the kind words! I really do love this stuff.

jedivan2
Jedivan's Viewpoint

date Posted: Apr 05, 2006 8:44 PM

Mr. Wallace,

I'm curious as to why you divided the account of Yoda's adventure on Dathomir (as revealed in The Courtship of Princess Leia) into two seperate events. Both author Dave Wolverton and the EU-Databank entry on Yoda seem to indicate that Yoda only made one trip there to rescue the survivors of the crash and retrieve the records and that his diplomatic solution brought about the conclusion of the Dathomir mission. Why divide this event into two seperate events?

Dan Wallace
Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka

date Posted: Apr 05, 2006 8:57 PM

Jedivan2, while I'm speaking from memory (don't have the book handy), I believe that Courtship has it broken as two separate events. In the beginning, when Luke is viewing the records, he sees Yoda stating "We tried to retrieve the Chu'unthor from Dathomir, but were repulsed by the witches" (i.e. the first, failed mission). At the end of the book, we learn that Yoda was able to negotiate a peaceful solution to obtain the records (i.e. the second, successful mission).

	Ello137 Apocalypse Later
date Posted: Apr 24, 2006 4:34 PM Hey, I have a question for you, more generally. What in-universe existence, if any, would you say the publishing eras have? Thanks.

	Dan Wallace Continuity, Criticisms, and Captain Panaka
date Posted: Apr 27, 2006 3:49 PM Do you mean that the people in the SW galaxy refer to things as the "New Republic Era" or the "New Jedi Order Era"? I think that some people probably do, mostly historians. But I haven't seen any in-universe evidence of such.

Please log in to post comments