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Smugglers Rants
date posted: Sep 24, 2005 8:53 AM  |  updated: Sep 30, 2005 3:59 AM
Anakin and Palpatine - Not as Powerful as they Might Have Been?
Palpatine groomed Anakin for 13 years, from when he first met him on Naboo to the final moments of Anakin and the birth of Vader. He cleverly guided Anakin in the directions Palpatine wanted him to go and manipulated situations and events around him so he could make him his new apprentice (poor Dooku...)
Now, we know that in Darth Vader (in the suit) Palpatine did not get the Sith apprentice he was hoping for. Vader in the original trilogy is nowhere near as powerful as Darth Vader pre-Mustafar (although the fearsome appearance of the suit instills so much fear he more than compensates). Anakin is the most powerful Jedi of them all, and without his terrible injuries he would have been even more powerful and dominant, likely taking Palpatine out and ruling himself. But we know all this, it's in the films.
But, a second question.
Perhaps that wasn't a bad thing for Palpatine. His fights with Mace (which took a huge toll on him) and Yoda must have taken something out of Palpatine too. Perhaps the Emperor we know from the original trilogy isn't as powerful as he might have been.
Both Anakin and Palpatine are physically scarred in terrible ways. The Emperor basically locks himself away and has Vader conduct his business for him under Tarkin. And Anakin - in many ways, as much to the general public as to himself, Anakin is dead. Annie wasn't only physically scarred but mentally and emotionally as well, and it takes Luke's love to bring the truth and the realisation that he is the Chosen One back to him.
(Doesn't Sith make the end of Jedi SO much more powerful now?)
So, in summary - while we all accept that Vader was diminished by his fight with Obi-Wan, perhaps Palpatine was also by his two battles with Mace and Yoda.

  jedimaster13109
Meditations of a Star Wars Fan
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 9:38 AM
Yes your right ROTS is the tie in episode for ROTJ. that last scene where luke defeats Vader it is so powerful It is the climatic end of the Saga and frankly in couldn't be better.
  21212121212
"So be it.......21212121212"
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 9:48 AM
Nice Blog! Yes, I agree they were getting to old and one of them would have died sometime.
  MrsHaydenChristensenAnakin901
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 9:58 AM
well i mean anakin was confused and he did it for padme but do u ever wondered what might have happend if anakin had gone to the dark side....
janlomona
Smugglers Rants
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 10:04 AM
Not sure what you mean there, but agree that Anakin was confused, very much so. But he didn't do it just for Padme, although he may have rationalised it as being so.
Anakin believed in what Palpatine was offering - a dictatorship, a single vision led by one man (their little humourous chat by the waterfall in Clones is now not quite so funny)
janlomona
Smugglers Rants
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 10:09 AM
Anakin had spent his entire life as a slave. First to Gardulla the Hutt, then Watto. You could argue that he was a slave to the Jedi. He was a slave to his passion for Padme, and finally through his own actions as Darth Vader he became the slave of Palpatine.
He was born of Prophecy and was a slave to that too - it's not until Jedi that he sees the light and kills Palpatine the architect of all his misey.
  Ilovebib
a weak-minded blog
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 10:21 AM
I think you're right (and I like the way you phrase, too). It seems possible that Palpy was diminished after he fought the two most powerfull Jedi masters in the galaxy, and the fact that Anakin/ Vader was too is really not that bad for him. Vader is strong enough to be a useful apprentice but not strong enough to take out palpy.
janlomona
Smugglers Rants
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 10:31 AM
That's the key thing isn't it bib, that while Palpatine may well have been weakened, so was Anakin. He wasn't strong enough as Vader to be any threat to Palpatine, and besides, Palps gave him an ISD and sent him out into the galaxy. I get the impression that they spent little time together. And after all, for all intents and purposes all the Jedi are gone (they believe Yoda to be dead and all the others slain) so they have no one to fear and can concentrate on taking the galaxy for the Empire.
  Ilovebib
a weak-minded blog
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 10:53 AM
"I get the impression that they spent little time together." yeah...well, they're not exectly best friends. :)

"The Emperor basically locks himself away and has Vader conduct his business for him under Tarkin." I think this is a metter of honor...an Empror never does the dirty work himself, it's beneath him, and Palpy is no exception.
  skywalker27199
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 2:31 PM
i think its all padme ' s falt!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  skywalker27199
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 2:32 PM
i think its all padme ' s falt!!!!!!!!!!!!! the reson anakin went to the dark side !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  skywalker27199
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 2:34 PM
i hate obi-wan mostly for cutting anakin's legs off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  Makabe
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 4:42 PM
While Lucas tries to convince us through other sources that Anakin/Vader's power is diminished, nothing in the films tells us so. The Force is of the mind and spirit, not the body, so physical injuries shouldn't matter. If size matters not, then neither should loss of limb. Vader is the perfect combination of everything that came before: ruthless attack dog, like Darth Maul; fallen Jedi, like Dooku; and half-machine like Greivous. Short of Palpatine's own force lightning, nothing could kill him.
  Darth Kevinmhk
date Posted: Sep 24, 2005 11:39 PM
We can see in EP1 that midi-chorian (maybe a spelling mistake) has something
to do with blood, after Vader's Mustafar duel, maybe he lost too much blood :D
janlomona
Smugglers Rants
date Posted: Sep 25, 2005 8:55 AM
There's little doubt that Vader was far less the sith he would have been after the lava dip. Despite this, Palpatine still has a potent tool to use, and boy doesn't he do just that. He twists Anakins mind, makes him do something he can't come back from, and Ben damages him physically. You could say that Kenobi did Palpatine a favour...
  Darth Desimus
date Posted: Oct 03, 2005 12:50 AM
Interesting blog. I think its a bit of a stretch to say Palpatine was dimished after the yoda battle. If precognition is a sign of force power then palpatine is just as powerful in the old trilogy. He certainly seemed to recover very quickly after that bout so I don't buy it. I think u r confusing short term exhaustion with long term decline. Just how much more powerful could Palps become?

Makabe - Hate to break it to you but Vader IS less powerful post episode 3. Listen to Lucas' commnetary on ROTJ on dvd. Near the end Lucas xplains that Vader lack of limbs means that he never attainss his full potential and becomes weaker overall. His injuries also weaken him in force potential. Sorry...
  Darth Desimus
date Posted: Oct 03, 2005 12:51 AM
P.S. I'm not sure vader would describe his new situation as 'perfect' by any means!
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