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Smugglers Rants

by: janlomona

date posted: Dec 01, 2005 11:14 AM | updated: Dec 12, 2005 10:43 AM

Jedi From the Block

See that picture of Han Solo there?
If Darth Vader had his way, that's how Luke would have looked at the end of Empire Strikes Back.
Don't agree?

Vader made it clear that freezing Solo was a test run for the carbon freezing of Luke for his journey to the Emperor. But this begs a deeper question.

Why would Darth Vader, Anakin Skywalker, feel the need to carbon freeze his son?
Was it because he saw Luke as a great threat? Was it for ease of movement?
Was it perhaps because Anakin knew that Luke would try to sway him back to the good side, and he didn't trust himself to resist.

With reflection, the decision of Vader to freeze Luke seems strange. Was it an order from the Emperor himself? Upon thawing out, would Luke have been so disorientated that he would have been more susceptible to Palpatine's dark influence?
Or was Vader planning something himself? Take Luke away, train him to fight alongside him and together, take out Palpatine and do exactly as he offered Luke on the gantry - "Rule the galaxy as father and son."

Luke was of great importance, to the Jedi cause as well as to the Sith cause, but what was the real reason behind freezing him?

http://blogs.starwars.com/galantesdiary/39

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riverguide96

date Posted: Dec 01, 2005 11:43 AM

Umm...let's return to the end of ANH. Your chasing an X-wing through a trench on the Death Star; the force is strong with this one...kablooie your Death Star is destroyed. Find out later it is your son; he's aligned with the rebels. I'd say Darth Vader didn't want to risk having Luke escape and possibly roaming free on his Star Destroyer or whatever Empire type ship he was scheduled to be transported on. Freeze Luke and he has no way of escaping, stealing vital plans, sabotaging your ship, etc...

	prettypadme999
date Posted: Dec 01, 2005 1:56 PM Okay, first thing's first, Anikan has ceasde to be and it is all Vader's doing. Second, I think that Vader knew he would not be convinced, so freezing him made the process easier. Plus he would be able to "terminate" Leia, Han and Chewie without his intereference.

Sol Kassar
Ramblings from the Detention Center (Startled)

date Posted: Dec 01, 2005 1:57 PM

You need not look very far for your answers: Was it an order from the Emperor himself? Upon thawing out, would Luke have been so disorientated that he would have been more susceptible to Palpatine's dark influence?

I think yes to both questions. We all know Vader will not refuse Palpatine's request. And what better way to turn Luke than when he's at his weakest?

Either that or it could've just been for ease of transportation. Ever try lugging that big carbonite statue through the subway system? T'aint easy I tells ya!

	Deni8
date Posted: Dec 01, 2005 2:00 PM I think it was for ease of movement, and when he thawed( the carbon sickness) he would be more susceptible due to blindness, etc.

Jonspacher

date Posted: Dec 01, 2005 2:48 PM

Freezing Luke in carbonite lessens the chance that Vader would have to kill him in a lightsaber duel. He maimed him as it is and for all he knew Luke was ready to commit suicide jumping into the chasm. If Vader would've flipped that switch a bit sooner, the chance of Luke dying in the fight were 0%. Obviously, Vader hadn't learned how to bring anyone back from the dead (you're nothing but a lot of talk and a lightsaber, Sideous) and it's hard to rule the galaxy side by side with a corpse.

Who knows, maybe Palpy & Vader could've worked Luke's mind over while he was frozen via some mental force beat-downs.

chelsea_cay421

date Posted: Dec 01, 2005 2:56 PM

I'm not really sure. But if vader was just to say: "Hey skywalker, come get in my here shuttle and we'll go talk to the emporer." It would never have worked. Luke was already determined to help his friends ( that's why he left dagobah in the first place) so he wasn't going to just jump on a ship with vader and see the emporer. Carbon freezing was there availible and 'convenient'. That's what i think.

SkywalkerAndVader

date Posted: Dec 01, 2005 3:11 PM

yeah, it was convinient, I'm guessing since the Empire was trying to attack the ship, they knew it had a damaged hyperdrive, they then looked for local systems, one being Bespin, and knew thats where they would go. So when they arrived, right before han, leia, chewie and 3po, Vader discovered the carbon freezing chamber, didn't want to risk luke dying, so tested it on Han, thus helping to lure Luke there.

Cyber Henny

date Posted: Dec 01, 2005 3:23 PM

Here's a thought... what if the emporer had foreseen that Vader could have been swayed by Luke? So he decided to get Vader to freeze him in carbonite... once he was frozen and brought back to the emporer, palps would have all the time in the world to slowly mold a frozen Skywalker into the apprentice he always wanted. By using the force he would have been able to enter Luke's mind, and distort it how he saw fit. Much like the dreams he seeded in Anakin. Then once the rage and hate took over Luke's mind he would thaw him out and have the son of Skywalker as a new dark lord with out any hassle or risk of turning Vader away from the dark side.

	Son of a Bith The Cantina Corner
date Posted: Dec 01, 2005 4:27 PM Hauling him to the Emperor in a block of carbonite would require alot less restraining devices and security measures. He could break free of many restraints with the Force. Remember Bastila in KOTOR? I could just imagine Luke being hauled around on a dolly with leather srtraps and a mask like Hannibal Lecter.

	xxantiflagxx0079 In my point of view the jedi are evil!
date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 3:10 PM dude i think he needed way to get him to the emperor without hurting him, but why not just use a stun gun like they did on leia

	DarthCannabis0
date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 5:00 PM Luke was trained by Obi-Wan, so of course Vader thought of him being somewhat of a threat. And he was due for a carbon-freezing becuase I don't believe you can escape carbon-freezing using The Force. Unless I am mistaken. But the whole "weak" thing makes sense aswell, I just think it was just the most convienient thing at the time.

Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal

date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 7:33 PM

Is everybody forgetting what Sidious said: He could be come a great threat to us. Sidious knew the Jedi were trouble: The Jedi are relentless. It'll be civil war without end. Sidious / Vader didn't know much about Luke accept that he was the son of Vader (the chosen one, the so-called greatest Jedi ever) and he avoided Vader to destroy the Death Star. For these reasons, Luke was a unknown, a very dangerous unknown. Carbon Freeze was a big time safety measure to keep him in check until Sidious/Vader could be sure of who and what they were dealing with. We don't need to create conspiracy theories here.

	Kenobi-fan The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 7:35 PM By the way...great blog! I wish I thought of it.

wookiefever93

date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 7:38 PM

Lets look at this for amoment from his point of veiw. I mean fase the facts he's an old robot
and the parts that are human probly have arthritis. lol. I mean really when hes fighting he looks like hes doing the robot. hes to old and tired to do all that work. and since hes evil he probly
thought it would be funny

. and if u look back to AOTC & ROTS he like doing things fancey.

rickgelz

date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 8:06 PM

I never thought about it, but you pose an excellent question. I guess it depends on whether the Emperor knew about what was happening on Bespin, which I don't know. If he knew about it, I'd say it was for restraint and ease of transport. If the Emperor didn't know, I think Vader was using the carbon freeze to subdue Luke quickly without hurting him. Then, he could secret Luke away and work on turning him so that they could defeat Palpatine, and Vader could become the Sith master.

R Sollers 88
Jedi Master Sollers

date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 8:16 PM

1. I think Vader was mystified by the fact he had a son... remember, he thought he had killed Padme'... I don't think Vader would have let his son sit in carbonite for eternity. Plus, Palpatine would have found out if Vader did keep Luke away. I think, at this point, Vader has too many unanswered questions (So does Sidious, if you think about it: Why are the Jedi coming back?)

R Sollers 88
Jedi Master Sollers

date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 8:16 PM

2. So, what would they would have done to Luke, Carbon-Freeze Gear? (Sorry, POTF joke, had to say it). I truly believe Vader may have very well thought hat he was going to bring Luke to Palpatine, at first. But, I think, depending on how Luke went into the Carbon Chamber (screaming, yelling, "no, don't, gaaa-garglkte-", etc.) would have affected what Anakin was left in Vader. He just owned his own son!

After he took his son, I think Vader would have reconsidered what he has done. Who knows, maybe Anakin would have come out a little sooner...

	Queven
date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 8:21 PM Maybe to brainwash him during the hybernation. If he can send him a lot of t�l�pathic message and, luke can't reply. If Vader or Palpy go in his mind, like a dream, and tell him a lot of thing to turn him... Hmmmmm.

Margie-Wan

date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 8:45 PM

Great blog. I think the idea of Vader having other plans is probably the right one. I tend to think (now that I've read it in your blog) that Vader was going to take Luke away to try to train him as his Sith apprentice. I say this because from the moment TESB opens Vader is OBSESSED with Luke. He's obviously irritated or at least questioning the Emperor. He isn't sharing his feelings with Palp either because the Emperor thinks that telling him that the rebel who destroyed the Death Star is Anakin's son is a big reveal. (Cont.)

Margie-Wan

date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 8:46 PM

In my opinion that's obviously not news to Vader because he's been risking his fleet to try to find this kid. From the very end of Sith he's wanted Palp's job. Luke could help him achieve it and it would be like having a little bit of Padme back which I think would be important to Vader. Vader turned on Padme but he never stopped wanting her. Isn't it great that Luke got to him and reminded him that loving some one is so different from possessing someone.

Ps I like Jonspacher's comment, "you're nothing but a lot of talk and a lightsaber, Sideous."

ProbedbyaProbeDroid

date Posted: Dec 02, 2005 9:46 PM

The whole argument that Vader wanted to freeze Luke so he was weak when unfrozen and could not resist the dark side does not fly. Nobody knew what would happen to someone frozen in carbon....thats why they tested it on Han!

It was all a matter of easy transport. Vader didnt want the "emperor's prize damaged." Plus if you want to keep a would be Jedi from causing trouble you simply freeze him!

SnoopDarthyDarth
Sith point of view related to real world...

date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 12:20 AM

Sometimes, such as here, details of the story are over-thought-out.

If you know you're going to face an enemy that, at least, has a chance to hurt you would you rather face him to the death (add to the mix its your son) or freeze him without harm and an easy trip to coruscant or wherever and plenty of time to keep him on ice unharmed to talk to your master be ready for the attempted conversion... or leave him awake and swingin and try to convert him on the fly without palpy at your back (who is the true brainiac)

This is an easy common sense decision to freeze him if possible to avoid any kind of struggle in any capacity.

geodiehl

date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 12:42 AM

It's a control issue. Sidious says that Luke is a threat or could be a powerful ally. We all know that both Sidious and Vader wanted to use Luke to further their own personal domination over the galaxy. Who was Luke more of a threat to? If Luke had time to work on Vader he may possibly turn him, or vice versa. With Luke frozen no exhcange could take place leaving Sidious still in control. Or maybe they were out of ice.

cnthomas8

date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 4:20 AM

first off whoever said that the empire just guessed that the falcon went to bespin needs to watch Ep. 5 again, Boba Fett is the one who tracked them to bespin. And in reponse to the blog i think it was pretty clear from the movie why he choose to freeze him. he obviously didnt want to kill him cuz he wanted to turn him so they could rule the galaxy and sidious wanted him to replace vader. so they needed him alive. so put him in carbanite and the first to turn him to their side gets a new apprentice, it seems pretty simple to me, they probably both new that luke would mean the destruction of one of them if he turned so they each needed him on their side

ps- snoopdarthydarth is the best sn i have ever seen, i wish i thought of it

	Krt-boy0
date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 4:57 AM I think Vaders thought process was, "Hmmm, if Solo survives this I can take Skywalker to the Emperor without a chance of him escaping or of being harmed during transport. " It's like putting something valuable inside a bank vault and holding the key.

	janlomona Smugglers Rants
date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 5:03 AM Blimey, I'm away from my PC for 2 days and I get back to all these great responses. Thanks guys, you've put this blog on the front page of the official site! I'm just gutted that no one has said what a cool title I gave this blog. I thought Jedi from the Block was both descriptive and contemporary...

	Kenobi-fan The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 6:15 AM I'm just gutted that no one has said what a cool title I gave this blog. I thought Jedi from the Block was both descriptive and contemporary... You'll get it over it. JK!

	fireskater56
date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 10:41 AM I think that Vader wanted to freeze Luke to keep him completely protected, because he truly cares for his safety. Even the Han Solo carbonite was escorted and protected by lots of guards. He also knows that the force is strong enough wtih Luke that he would be able to escape any kind of imprisonment the empire could dish out.

	darthadjacent
date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 12:24 PM I think that once Darth Vader new he had a son. He wanted him frozen to maybe get him to join the dark side so they could be the ultimate sith lord team. But then it was not the will of the force for this to happen. Also think about this if he had suceded Luck may have been able to turn him sooner than the later in Return of the Jedia.

	vaderbutt
date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 1:39 PM Vader wanted to freeze Luke to transport him to the Emperor easier. Han was the test subject.

crazyfoot
Commander Crazyfoot

date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 2:35 PM

He was a great thron in the Emporers side. Plus the Emporer knew that he was the only being in the entire galaxy that could actually take out Vader. If Vader was killed then the Empire would of fallen. He was the face or mask of the Empire. He brought fear with him where ever he went. He was just as phycologically powerful as an AT-AT bearing down on a Rebal Infantry unit or a Death Star Attacking a planet or fleet. It would of been amazing if Luke joined his father and overthrough the Emporer. Those two side by side with the power of the DARK SIDE would be unstoppable.

Mindless Mandalorian

date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 6:26 PM

I just assumed that Vader thought that it would be easier to capture Luke and then convert him immeadiatly. It was more difficult for Vader to turn Luke than it would have been had he been able to capture him, as Vader was forced to think on his feet. If luke was captured Vader would be able to weigh his options and come up with a well thought ot strategy for converting Luke. He would have appealed to Lukes hatred for the Emperor and entced him with the thought of destroying him, and with Luke having no way out, ie. the shaft he falls into on Bespin, Luke would eventually have succumbed.

	Mace Nguyendu
date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 6:59 PM Hahaha. Wouldn't be awesome if Vader did actually plan to take down Palps with Luke? I mean, Anakin and Luke as a compined team? Doesn't get any better than that.

	darktrooper794
date Posted: Dec 03, 2005 11:06 PM That is an interesting question. How loyal was Vader to palps. He did say to padme in ROTS taht he could overthrow the emperor and they could rule the galaxy. Maybe we wanted to do the same with Luke. The new book Dark Lord Rise of Lord Vader will give us insight on this. I am going to read this book as soon as I can get my hands on it.

Galactic_Force_Fighter701

date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 12:55 AM

Darth Vader was a very conflicted individual. Especially on this issue. No doubt, his first obligation was to do as the emperor commanded. "I do not want the emperor's prize to be ruined." But through openly offering his son to rule the galaxy after their conflict, an knowing his emotional conflictions with his son, I believe Vader had plans for him to be a conscience force rather than to just look pretty frozen in the Emperor's throne room ultimately.

cnthomas8

date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 1:08 AM

Umm duh.. Vader's plan was to take down sidious with Luke on his side, that was his plan from the moment he found out that he had a son, Vader cared about his family more than anything thats why he wanted to rule the galaxy with Padme and the same when he found out about Luke

He would have appealed to Lukes hatred for the Emperor and entced him with the thought of destroying him

I think Luke hated Vader alot more than the Emperor, cuz he thought that Vader killed his father

	stuntedsanity
date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 9:39 AM Being frozen certainly reduces the chances of an escape attempt.....

	darktrooper794
date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 11:12 AM Maybe Vader viewed Luke as a second chance of taking control and ruling the galaxy the way he wanted to do things, his dream since AOTC I think

	Aadi_Rila Jedi Master to my God-child
date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 2:21 PM I would have to agree with the hypothesis that Vader would freeze Luke to later wake his whiny a** up, and pursuade him while "in hibernation sickness" to join him (not neccesarily the Dark Side) and take down Palps together. I am curious though, as to whether the carbonite freezing process would damage Luke's lightsaber. =)

sunflash74

date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 3:17 PM

Why bother using some fancy jedi- restraint that wouldn't even work? Especially when you could just freeze him and be done with it? Any restraining devices you use on a jedi don't work- they always find a way out of the situation. How do you know that vader could speak to luke through the force when luke is in stasis- he's practically frozen to death!! I think vader froze him because that was the most simplistic and effective solution available. Besides, Vader was owning Skywalker in the fight- Luke was running- how could vader fear that?? Stun bolts wouldn't work either- he'd just end up shaking them off- the first one or two anyway. Then, he'd just wake up and fight his way out like he always does.

	e82ndst Chillin at the Cantina!
date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 4:40 PM he wanted to freeze luke to bring him to the emporer. its in the film aint it?

	sunflash74
date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 5:24 PM Yeah- that's exactly what happened. It wasn't because Vader feared Luke.

"Tyrant"

date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 6:32 PM

What a retarded question. He wanted to freeze him so he wouldn't have to babysit Luke every second of the trip back to the Emperor. I mean HELLO!!!!!, Luke's basicaly a Jedi, he could easily escape any other way of being transported without Vader looking over his shoulder. Janlomona is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for this topic....are you that desperate to have your own blog??????

janlomona
Smugglers Rants

date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 10:57 PM

Fair point `Tyrant', but it appears that you don't have a blog here at all, so the words stones and glass houses spring to mind.
It's pretty clear from the varied replies to this question (and notice I don't make any definitive statement, all are just questions thrown out there to think about) that no one is entirely sure why he froze him. If Vader is so strong compared to Luke, why freeze him? Apparently Vader could control him anyway (and what could possibly be more important than bringing Luke to the Emperor?). If he wanted Luke to join him, why freeze him?

janlomona
Smugglers Rants

date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 10:57 PM

The point is, as the fight showed, Luke was no physical threat to Vader, so that's not why he froze him. Obviously Luke wouldn't have had his sabre, and his skills in the Force were still nascent, so he wouldn't have had much chance to escape some cleverly designed prison cell. On reflection perhaps it comes down to temptation. Perhaps Vader knew Luke would be able to appeal to the good in him, despite still being in sway to the dark side.

janlomona
Smugglers Rants

date Posted: Dec 04, 2005 10:58 PM

Vader could sense the future, just like Palpatine and Yoda, he would know the choices at hand - Luke could say "Yes" to his offer of joining him to rule the galaxy, or Luke could have persuaded Vader to join him. Or, Luke could have tried to commit suicide by throwing himself off the ledge, which he did.
Bottom line, unless Lucas says otherwise, there's no definitive answer to this.

darth_axltious

date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 12:44 AM

no definitive answer, But I think that tyrant is correct. what better way to keep a prisioner at bay than to freeze him in carbonite. I also think he was going to the emperor as vader stated..."this facility is crude, but should be adiquite enough to freeze skywalker for his jouney to the emperor" In ROTJ he still manages to bring luke to palpatine anyway. I think vader needed the emperors help to turn luke to the dark side. anyway..carbonite freezing would be sweet if they had it for real.

	cnthomas8
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 12:55 AM I think vader needed the emperors help to turn luke to the dark side I think Vader would of had a better chance of turning him, its pretty clear that Luke cares for his father alot and i think the only thing that would of turned him would have to be either that he wanted to be with Vader or if he was in a position like Anakin was in in ROTS

	darthkang
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 4:32 AM ahhh sith spit

bpence

date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 8:57 AM

I think everone is wrong that I've read. I don't think the Emperor really cared about Luke unless he was gonna be his next Vader, wich he saw wasn't likely through the Force. I also don't think Vader wanted to turn Luke to the Darkside, just ally with him and have him serve him. I think Vader wanted to freeze Luke so the Imperial forces wouldn't accisently kill him. Vader would then, after the Rebel fleet was crushed ( if not for Luke it would have been), Vader would train him and overtake the EMpire, " FATHER AND SON!" I think Vader might have been hiding his Light Side and waiting to that wmoment to do somthing good. But that is asking alout of a Sith lord.

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