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 | Phoenix from the Flames |
 It's been a while, but here goes...
The Separatist Movement
Their leadership, under the guidance of characters such as Nute Gunray, and the heads of the Corporate Alliance, the Banking Clan and the Techno Union, threw its weight behind Darth Sideous' efforts to overthrow the Republic and replace it with a better, more unified organisation. In that respect they were unified and solid - fighting for the right to separate from the corrupt and crumbling Republic and start afresh under new, strong leadership. Headed by the fallen Jedi Knight Count Dooku, the Separatist movement, while enemies of the Republic, had an agenda and a mission statement, and at the end of the Clone Wars prepared for victory, wealth and power.
But Darth Sideous had other, long-term ideas. He had Anakin Skywalker distabilise the Separatist movement by killing Dooku in cold blood and replacing him with General Grievous. Upon the Generals death they were sent to safety on the world of Mustafar. But after Order 66 and the disabling of all Battle Droids across the galaxy he sent his new apprentice Darth Vader to Mustafar to execute the Separatist Council.
The galaxy believed the Jedi, already largely mistrusted by the public, had turned on the Republic, and Palpatine used 'his Clone Army' to end that threat, and instituted a new Empire, to protect the galaxy.
In a stroke Mustafar effectively played host to both the end of the Jedi Order and the Separatist Movement.
But...
While the top tier leadership of the Separatist Movement were privy to knowledge and information that lower ranking officials were not, would the surviving members of each individual arm of the movement - Trade Federation, Corporate Alliance, Banking Clan and Techno Union - follow the same ideals?
Isn't it possible that these new leaders, suddenly finding themselves ousted from potential power by The Emperor and this new Empire, would follow their Separatist ideals. Break away from the leadership and start...a Rebellion?
Isn't it possible that the ashes of the Separatist Movement could have helped give rise to the Rebellion?
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http://blogs.starwars.com/galantesdiary/45 |
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Blue leader46
The CIS Shadowfeed Department
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 3:04 AM
I don't think so. The Rebellion was founded a decade or so after the Clone Wars, and it was Bail Organa and Mon Mothma who founded it, and they had nothing to do with the CIS. Although the CIS and the Rebellion are very similar, in terms of their values...
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janlomona
Smugglers Rants
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 3:09 AM
True, but the seeds of rebellion were founded before the actual establishment of the Empire. In the deleted scenes of Sith, Mothma and Organa voice their concerns to Padme, and those people were later the leaders of the Rebellion. Within months small cells were striking at the Empire, attacking the Death Star and forming early alliances. While the actual treaty to form the Alliance wasn't signed until 2 years before Yavin, separate cells were striking at the Empire for years before. Maybe some were ex-Separatists?
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solsticedawn
His men will follow him anywhere, ner vod. But only out of a sense of curiosity.
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 4:11 AM
Well, certainly the Empire was hostile to non-humanoids, and Palpatine had arranged it so that mostly non-humanoids were in the CIS. One of the EU novels shows Dooku's POV on that; they intentionally set up some of these species for a fall when they pushed down the Separatist movement.
As was posted earlier, the Rebellion was largely started right in the Senate. There were several scenes in the novelization, as well as several deleted scenes from the film where senators are questioning the direction of the at-war Republic.
You have good points. Certainly the Rebellion was not hostile to non-humanoid species. Just because we don't see Nemoidians in the OT movies, it doesn't mean they weren't there.
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Yoda's Pink Uncle
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 4:56 AM
you have to remember that GL probably only thought up neimodians for the PT
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janlomona
Smugglers Rants
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 5:01 AM
solsticedawn, great point about non-humans in the Empire, and as you say the Rebellion had no such problems. Look at Ackbarrs rise to prominence.
Of course, Yoda's Pink Uncle is absolutely right, the Nemoidians weren't in existence when GL wrote the originals, but from a story POV there's no reason to believe they weren't there all along.
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Darth Kenobi94
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 7:24 AM
i think the seps may have helped the rebellion, because they had to live with the empire or join the rebellion, because in the RA there are a lot of alien species, maybe one of them were neimodians and geonosians
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Jedi_Master_33
The Force is Strong In This One
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 6:47 PM
I would say yes it is possible, but the real roots of the Rebellion are revealed in the novel and in the deleted scenes. As I'm sure most people know, it was Padme, Bail Organa and Mon Mothma who laid the groundwork for the Rebellion just before the rise of the empire, and of course Organa and Mothma were the two biggest leaders. I think it is possible that the Seps could have helped the Rebellion out though, because I'm sure that they weren't too happy about the new Empire.
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Jedi_Master_33
The Force is Strong In This One
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 6:47 PM
One question though, why do you say that people didn't trust the Jedi? In the post-Empire EU people distrust the Jedi because they were made out to be enemies by the Empire and were also blamed for some big missteps in the New Republic era, but I was always under the impression that the Jedi were regarded as heroes during the Clone Wars. Am I wrong?
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weatheriscool@hotmail.com
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 7:38 PM
you are not wrong, remember that at this point the clone wars were virtually over, the jedi were heroes DURING the clone wars, but ever since the "attempt" on palpatines life that left him scarred, he convinced the entire senate that the jedi tried to kill him, how could he do this? well, he is a sith lord, he could probably control the entire senate if he wished.
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Darth Olors
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 7:49 PM
The databank entry for Banking Clan communications frigatesays:"The design of the capital ships in Episode III take the visual iconography of the classic trilogy and spins it around. The triangular ships now denote the "good guys" and smoother, organic shapes belong to the "bad guys." - Continued
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Darth Olors
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 7:49 PM
To that end, concept artists looked to unused Joe Johnston designs of Rebel starships from Return of the Jedi. While such a visual directive suggests a link between the Separatists and the Alliance, it is not yet known if there is meant to be a literal connection between the starships of the Confederacy and those used years later by the Rebellion."So maybe there is a connection......? You could be on to something!
Good Blog,
Darth Olors
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Kazool Ray
You must learn to let go of all you fear to lose
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 7:57 PM
Palpatine had control of the droids when Vader assassinated the separatists leaders. The remaining separatists didn't have the army to fight back. Palpatine didn't use the droids because it wouldn't look good if the new emperor used the droids that he waged war against.
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Master Jacen Solo1
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 8:27 PM
I'm sure that some form of the Trade Federation and co. still exist(probably in a form that benefits Palps somehow). But they're to self-serving to aid the Rebellion
I was always under the impression that the Jedi were regarded as heroes during the Clone Wars. Am I wrong?
yep. It wasn't much better back then. You never read a PT novel?
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Jedi Historian
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 8:42 PM
Even though Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and Garm Bel Iblis were the true founders of the Alliance to Restore the Republic, I am sure that angered Separatists did support the rebel cause. In Empire at War, there is a part where Vader is ordered to suppress a rebellion on Geonosis led by Geonosians and Rebels. Neimoidians and others probably joined the fight as well. I think that the Mon Calamari were even Separatists early on in the Clone Wars (the assault on Kamino), and look where they ended up later on...
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The Short Stormtrooper
Confessions of a Short Stormtrooper
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 8:48 PM
I was always under the impression that the Trade Federation, Banking Clan, and all the other naughty Seperatists were disbanded and had their resources absorbed by the budding new Galactic Empire. I recall reading something along those lines in the Holonet Feed a couple of Insiders ago. As far as the individual groups go, I think the Neimoidians would be MUCH too cowardly to face the Empire in such an overt manner as the Rebellion, and I believe the Muuns and the Banking Clan would back the Empire all the way. In fact, I seem to remember reading in Zahn's Hand of Thrawn duology that Muunilist was STILL a loyalist Imperial world, and that was about fifteen years AFTER the death of Palpatine! Oooooh.... those scwewy Muuns....
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I)ark_Jedi1
Holocron of the I)J
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 9:06 PM
Gizor Delso (Battlefront II) led a Droid Rebellion on Mustafar, but it was put down by Vader and his 501st Legion.
Like stated above, Mon Mothma, Bail Organa and Padme voiced concerns. It the deleted scene we see the "Birth of the Rebellion" a 'pact' made by several senators to try and restore the Republic, but to stay covert. The actual treaty was signed by Garm Bel-Iblis of Corellia, Mon Mothma of Chandrila and Bail Organa of Alderaan.
For the next 19 years, the Rebellion would grow, but we see in the Empire comics, that weeks, months and even years before the destruction of the Death Star and the Battle of Yavin, military actions and malcontent between the Rebellion and the Empire.
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I)ark_Jedi1
Holocron of the I)J
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 9:06 PM
Jedi Historian, your statement that the Mon Calamari were Separatists is wrong. The Mon Calamarian commander Merai led a small Separatist force of Mon Calamari and droids against Kamino. If you remember the Clone Wars cartoons, the Quarren Isolation League rebelled against the Mon Calamari government. Quarren = Separatist. Mon Calamari = Republic.
As for ex-Seperatists, I'm sure there might have been some to sympathize or even root for the Rebellion, but there aren't any examples in the comics nor the books
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darth_complicated
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 9:40 PM
No, the rebellion clearly was made by Senator Organa and Mon Mothma, and some other senators. The republic, even Bail and Mothma, saw the separtists as evil, in the deleted scene, they say that they are no separtists. No one, but Sidious, knows where they are. Vader kills them all
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gahmah80
Gahmah's Lair of Trauma (Blog Closed Due to Inability to Renew Hyperspace Account)
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 9:51 PM
Strange, I heard that there were Geonosian scientists that aided in the construction of the Death Star during the Imperial Era.
I also heard that most of the Skakoans isolated themselves back to Skako during that time since they were persecuted due to their common separatism in the Clone Wars.
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sithlordsithlord124
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 10:20 PM
i would say if the separatists made up their own Rebellion, then it would be possible for the loyalists (Bail and Mothma) to get ideas from the separatists, rebel. but i don't think the separatists would've been successful in either way becuase they had no army. They would've had an army if Gizor didn't do the stupid thing that he did, but even so, the separatists weren't liked by anybody, so the whole Rebellion thing would've been put down fast.
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DarthDerekT
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 11:24 PM
Some of the planets that joined the CIS would naturally support the Rebellion, since the basic reason for joining the CIS in the first place was the corruption and ineffectiveness of the Senate. Not every world in the CIS belonged to the major corperations, besides one reason for the Clone War was to bankrupt those organizations so it would be easier for Palpatine to take them over.
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rickgelz
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date Posted: Mar 24, 2006 11:28 PM
I do believe that a lot of Separatist sympathizers and non-droid troops (yes, there were some) probably started resistance cells to oppose the Empire. For example, the people of Jabiim, who had fought the Republic with Separatist backing, transferred their opposition to the Empire. However, I doubt that any of the surviving officials from the Commerce Guilds would have been in a position to do anything to oppose the Empire. All of the CIS assets would have been seized by Palpatine as spoils of war. Officials who cooperated, like the Muuns apparently did, would have been allowed to maintain some degree of power, but all others would have been killed and replaced with Imperial loyalists.
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Froggü
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 2:12 AM
Ive been thinking about the similarity between the separatists and the rebels myself. Sure the separatists were just a tool to start a war, their head worked with the enemy, but all of them surley hated the fact that a sith had control of the galaxy (although a little manipulated by Dooku). So, most likley, once their organisation had gone under by what they hated the most, its possible some of them joined a new opposing force, mutch like their own, maybe some even started it...
This is what i like about StarWars, its not a simple story of good vs evil. Suddenly the good is turned to evil and vice versa, its all depending on our own point of wiev
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Waza Sunrider
Step away from the TV
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 5:25 AM
It would be nice if this aspect is covered in one of the 2 tv shows GL is doing;
because the great irony is that if the CIS remnants are part of the rebellion then in a round about way Palpatine started the rebellion against his own empire.
The force works in mysterious ways
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redhawk23
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 7:03 AM
i doubt it because we never really saw too much remnants of CIS technology floating aroud in the ot. Would have been droids and better weapons.
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Deadmanwalking1
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 7:23 AM
I thought tht, when the head of the movement was destroyed by Vader on Mustafar, tht the guilds and the trade federation were nationalised to become part of the empires machine. They were no more. Least thats what i thought happened...
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darth vinsidious
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 8:30 AM
I agree. The leaders were executed to prevent any kind of uprising. The rebellion as we know it orginated from the senate.
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jkthunder
Seven Pieces
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 9:53 AM
I agree that this would be great fodder for the live action TV show. It's a great question to be asking, but all of it is so dependent on events that could possibly take place with lower tier Seperatists (and whatever becomes of them, most likely not in the form of the CIS) and the formation of the Rebellion. An interesting story this could be.
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stevie2074
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 10:33 AM
yep. It wasn't much better back then. You never read a PT novel?
Actually wasn't Obi-wan and Anakin celebrities. In the novelization for ep 3, They say that Anakin and Obi-Wan were very popular thanks to the holonet. It was at the point where the public thought they could do anything. If they knew Anakin and Obi were on their way to a hotspot then they didn't worry about the outcome. So I have to disagree here. The jedi's were counted as hero's and celebrated as such. In the novel they also show how the Emperor was able to manipulate the audio of his confrontation with Mace and the other masters to make it sound like the were coming to kill him to take over the Republic.
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stevie2074
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 10:35 AM
post cont.
This is how he was able to convince the senate and the public that the Jedi were had betrayed them. This could explain why Jedi weren't liked around the time of the OT.
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pwasherevdr
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 5:43 PM
I think the clone trooper issue of the insider said that all the CIS holdings were made Imperial friendly, and that the acting viceroy of the Trade Fed surrendered, but a couple Neimodians weren't happy about it, and would continue to oppose Palpatine. Something like that.
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Mustafar Death
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 6:00 PM
General Grevious didn't replace Darth Tyranus when he was executed. Tyranus trained Grevious in "the Jedi Arrrrts." Tyranus was the voice of Sidious and Grevious was the General on the battlefield. They worked side by side until Dooku's untimely demise.
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chadian_seaweed
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 6:02 PM
"Your beginning to sound like a seperatist."
The seperatists ideals are definitely a part of the new rebellion's purpose: Democracy isn't working now so we have to find a way to bring it back to life. The two are connected, however it isn't likely that the seperatists joined the rebellion quickly or at all because they were so afraid of the sith and the power palpatine weilded, if Vader can destroy all their leaders, who were well protected by that alliance with the sith, then how could the people stand against the dark lord?
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chadian_seaweed
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 6:10 PM
as for the jedi being popular way back when, who can really tell? From reading the books it doesn't seem likely, they were the peace keepers of the galaxy and honestly how many people really enjoy someone who enforces the peace? 
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fleetcommander3
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 7:01 PM
If the Seperatists had anything to do with the rebellion, then why don't we see Trade Federation, Corporate Alliance, Techno Union, etc. starships and new battle droids in the rebel forces both in the movies and in EU books.
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jbl_usa
Master Vernun Linde - Keeper of the Force Archives and the Journal of the Wills
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date Posted: Mar 25, 2006 7:20 PM
The official Star Wars information is that Corporate Alliance, Banking Clan, and Trade Federation all ceased to exist after ROTS. In fact the Empire confiscated all their possessions and procecuted and killed any rebelling parties, including a group of Neumodians with self-sustaining Droids. I am sure there were a few remaining Separatists, out of which a few may even have helped the Rebellion, but not that they had any power politacally or finantially after ROTS. Thats the world
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llchoosenOnell
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 12:34 AM
Tshe seps and the rebellion are very different in many ways. I believe that they would have joined the rebellion and turned on them later. once the empire was crushed the new reblulic would be weak and the seps would walk over them like a door mat.
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Master Tralis
The Jedi/Unstable Ex-Newbie Archives
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 2:46 AM
Very nice blog and a fascinating theory. 
I believe its entirely possible that some of the CIS could have joined the Rebel cause, even if only to get back at the Empire.
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darkside2006a
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 6:13 AM
I have also thought to myself that maybe remnants of the seperatists helped start the Rebel scu^ err I uh mean the Rebel Alliance. lol
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weatheriscool@hotmail.com
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 6:28 AM
face it, the empire was simply trying to restore peace, and then the rebellion came along trying to take over the galaxy!!!! ![]:)](http://blogs.starwars.com/share/img/emoticons/devil.gif)
Empire over Rebellion
Jedi over Sith
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Darth_Loxsar
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 6:37 AM
as it was already said, the rebellion was started by a few select senators....including padme briefly b4 her death...so in speculation i guess maybe members of the CIS joined the senators and made the rebellion grow.
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Sith Ninja Version 1
Palpatine's Political Schemes pt. 1
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 8:38 AM
The Rebellion were not the offshoot of the Separatist. It was senators of the fallen Republic that became the delegation of 2000. They grown distrustful of Palpatine's rule as Supreme Chancellor.
So when the Empire rises, the delegation formed the Rebel Alliance. It took them nearly 20 years to form it. The delegation were not a sect of the Separatist, but they were a group of politicians that were against the Supreme Chancellor's rule.
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Eddie1992
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 8:53 AM
Oh but is it not true that both the Seperatists and the Rebellion are the same thing? A terrorist force attempting to rout the standing government?
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CommanderCC-2224
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 9:49 AM
The Sepradists were cowreds, they probably were tarafired to go up against the empire.
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jedinobby02
Thoughts from the English Jedi.
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 1:30 PM
the seps couldn't start a rebellion as the emperor prob took control of the operations they were now just another cog of the imperal war machine.
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Stemi Accam
"I will be proud of this technological terror I have just Constructed!"
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 1:45 PM
I have been thinking the same thing about this subject but you just beat me of the mark, great Blog!
I agree with you janlomona in saying that some of the CIS "lower ranking officials" would have lived and may well have contributed to the birth of the Rebellion. Many former CIS planets would have supported the Rebel movement underground but would not have an effective organization to challenge the Empire for years to come.
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Stemi Accam
"I will be proud of this technological terror I have just Constructed!"
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 1:46 PM
Also the reason we do not see any mass CIS technology in the hands of the Rebels is because the Republic (later the Empire) would take control of the technology at the end of the Clone Wars. Palpetine had executed the end of the Clone Wars almost perfectly so that his forces were strategically placed to take control of CIS technology.
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Arf Maul
We'll Blow Your Planet Up!
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 5:18 PM
Great blog
The Rebel Alliance didn't just form overnight with a couple of senators sitting around a caf table say "hey let's create a massive rebellion!"
Pockets of resistance to the Emperor's new regime would have emerged on hundreds of planets. Some of those cells would likely have involved surviving Separatists. Others might have included Jedi sympathizers, smugglers, pacifists, whatever.
Mothma, Organa and co were talking about rebelling in ROTS, but that wasn't exactly the birth of the Rebellion as we know it. It was just the birth of one of many rebellious cells.
With the Corellian Treaty, Organa, Mothma and Iblis were making an attempt to unite all the splinter cells around the galaxy into one organised Alliance.
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weatheriscool@hotmail.com
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 6:14 PM
also since bail organa had leia and knew the whereabouts of luke he knew that it would be vital to overthrow the emporer to ensure the survival of the jedi order.
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youngjedijake8
Emperor Palpatine's Flying Circus
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date Posted: Mar 26, 2006 8:48 PM
Only the corporate alliance, trade federation, and Banking Clan survived to my knowledge past imperial seizure. The corporate alliance may have backed the rebels, but icant confirm this.
i only knew the trade fed survived after i played star wars galaxies, and they seemed only a minor presence . I know the banking clan was behind the imps because thats what the IG in IG-88 stands for-Intergalactic Banking. so n e way, i skipped past all commments to write mine, and i plan to read the others after i publish this. thx
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