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Smugglers Rants
date posted: Oct 25, 2006 5:31 PM  |  updated: Oct 25, 2006 5:36 PM
Her Dying Words
Padme. Attacked by her husband on the Mustafar landing platform. Anakin, lost to the alure of the dark side, swayed by ambition, greed and most vitally fear of losing the one thing he cherished above all else - Padme herself. Lying on the Polis Massa medical table she turns to Obi-Wan and says her last words.
"There is still good in him... I know."
And there she dies.

Luke. Sitting with his sister on the forest moon of Endor. After all he has endured at the hands of Darth Vader, after the struggles and losses, mutilations and despair he tells Leia of their true heritage and then prepares to leave and face Vader.
"There is still good in him, I can sense it. I can save him, I can turn him back to the good side. I have to try."

Obi-Wan. Looking down at the burning body of Anakin Skywalker he lifts his lightsabre from the ashes of Mustafar and walks away, leaving Anakin to his death, unable to finish him himself.
"You were my brother. I loved you."

Three people, all connected to Anakin Skywalker, all hurt in different ways. But two of them were prepared to fight for his soul. One of them wanted Anakin dead.

Perhaps Ben, in the 19 years between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope, had time to reflect on the folly of his uncompleted job. If he had finished Anakin,as Yoda instructed, then perhaps the years of Imperial rule might have gone differently. The Chosen One had turned to the dark side, and helped rule the galaxy through fear instead of help free it. By the time of Lukes emergence, perhaps Ben sees Vader as a separate entity from Anakin, who he still whistfully refers to as "A good friend."
Ben spins his yarn to Luke, of how a young Jedi named Darth Vader slew Anakin, through betrayal. While far too early to tell Luke the vast scope of the truth, he resorts to convenient lies, 'certain points of view', but words that enflame Luke's hatred for Vader. At this juncture, how could Luke ever believe that Vader was his father?

Come Empire, Ben is no more open to the possibility of Anakins redemption. He is against Luke leaving to save his friends, knowing it is a trap. Yoda, as cryptic as Kenobi, tries to persuade Luke to stay, but Luke is set to go.
But what are they afraid of? Luke getting into a fight? Certainly, Luke has had only limited training, but perhaps it is more than that.
Through the two trilogies, the 'bad guys' almost always tell the truth. Dooku told Kenobi the exact truth in Clones, Vader told Luke the truth on the Bespin gantry and Palpatine, while playing both sides into the middle and acting as leader of both, told versions of the truth.
'Certain points of view.'
But maybe Ben was fearful of Luke falling prey to the persuasive alure of the dark side. Or maybe the fact that Vaders words rang true to his son.
Luckily for Ben, the horror of Vaders reveal was too much for the young Jedi, who opted for death above possible temptation.

By Jedi, it is Luke who is pushing for answers, and using his powers to reveal more truths. Leia is his sister, Vader is his father, and Ben's words begin to unravel. Luke cannot bring himself to destroy Vader, and wants to bring him back to the good side, but Ben is unchanged.
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
Despite Luke seeing a kernel of goodness to redeem, Ben cannot accept the idea.
Perhaps, controversially, Kenobi belives Luke is the Chosen One, and in order for the Prophecy to be fulfilled Vader must be eliminated. If he still held faith in Anakin being the Chosen One, why train and encourage Luke to destroy him?

Which brings us to our opening point. If Padme and Luke could sense the goodness in Anakin then why couldn't Ben, who'd spent significantly more time with Anakin than either his wife or son?

Did Kenobi consider Anakin dead, slain by his own hands on the Mustafar lava shore?
Was separating the two the only way he could sleep at night, justifying the execution of a man he considered a brother?
Or was there something else?
Guilt?
Fear?
Or was Obi-Wan Kenobi hiding another secret?

hansgirl3
Invoking the Squee
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 5:47 PM
Maybe it was a case of "he couldn't see the forest for the trees". In other words, he was too close to Anakin, so he couldn't see the goodness in him that Padme and Luke felt.

Interesting thoughts you have here, Janlomona.

I'd like to know what other secret you think Obi-wan could have been hiding... Hmmm...


Great entry! :)
FAN4YRS
A Rebel's Ramblings
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 6:02 PM
I will explain it like this:

Some people hate the college they go to. However, as years go by they remember things they enjoyed about it: friends, a couple of classes, perhaps even a professor or two. Suddenly, that college you hated is the alma mater it always said it would be in the brochures.

Ben knew Anakin had turned to evil, he did not believe, after all he did, that he could be restored. However, he was Anakin's friend. Perhaps Ben appreciated the fact that they were now completely opposite, they were both STILL alive. It was love/hate. The love told him to train Anakin's son, the hate told him Anakin himself was forever lost.
vadersgirl33
vadersgirl_reflections
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 6:20 PM
I agree. Obi-wan couldn't see the good still buried deep down inside Anakin/Vader because he was too close to him. They were closer than brothers. Padme and Luke loved him unconditionally- they saw through the barriers Anakin/Vader put up around himself. Padme still believed in him. Luke probably sensed it through the Force. As for Obi-wan, he lost faith in Anakin/Vader after seeing for himself what he had done. Was he hiding more than he was willing to tell??? Hmmm...... interesting. Don't know.

vadersgirl33
  GalacticBabe
I Have a Bad Feeling About This!
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 6:27 PM
This is a very thought provoking entry!

Perhaps, controversially, Kenobi belives Luke is the Chosen One I have often wondered that myself. It is curious why Obi-wan is so intent on believing that Anakin/Vader could not be redeemed. Could he at some point have been jealous of Anakin? Anakin, himself, wondered that in AOTC. He told Padme he thought Obi-Wan was holding him back because he was jealous. Maybe Anakin wasn't that far off the mark.

Excellent entry!:)
  darthdarth70
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 6:40 PM
I think that Obi-wan and Yoda spoke of years of experience. From their knowledge of Sith (they certainly knew more about Sith than Padme and Luke), nobody had returned from dark side. The dark side was just too strong, this was why Jedi feared dark side so much. There was no reason for them to believe otherwise. Maybe they wished he could come back but knew it's impossible. And why would they believe he could anyway, since they never trust him in first place. But Padme and Luke had no such problem. They just trusted him. Sometimes all you need is faith. That is why I said that if Jedi had faith in Anakin from beginning, there wouldn't be SW stories.
  darthdarth70
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 6:54 PM
Continue above: another reason made Vader's return possible: his severed limbs. Because he had artificial hands and legs, this limited his use of force, so he couldn't reach his full potential. Vice versa, dark side could not control him fully either, unlike other unfortunately fellows who took dark path before him. Those Jedi-converted Sith losed no body parts, and dark side was able to dominate their fate completely. As for our beloved character, severed limbs made him return possible, of course with little faith.
amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 7:49 PM
Very interesting thoughts, janlomona! I've always wondered how Obi-wan could be so strong in the Force, the Light Side's ultimate teacher (alongside Yoda once ESB came out) yet the crustiest, crabbiest old guy around? And you make SUCH a good point about his not believing in Padme and Luke's words.

Yeah...I want to know what you might think his secret is, too!
jediprincess77
I Know...
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 8:25 PM
Great blog! Perhaps Ben's "lack of faith" in Vader/Anakin was a result of placing too much faith in him in the past. Obi-Wan was one smart Jedi. He knew there was something Anakin wasn't telling him. He knew something bad was going down. Still, Obi trusted Anakin to do the right thing in the end...but he didn't (at least during Obi's lifetime). Look at what happened when Obi-Wan did trust Anakin- the whole galaxy started to fall apart. Perhaps Ben didn't want to make that same mistake again, or perhaps he didn't want Luke to make that mistake. Just some thoughts! ;)

Again, great entry!

Now please tell us what you think the secret is... :)
The Stooge
Star Wars Joke-A-Day
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 8:30 PM
Fascinating questions -- and extremely well-presented. Of course, I expected nothing less. ;)

My take on Ol' Ben is that he was racked with guilt, from several angles. He felt guilty about losing Anaking to the Dark Side... guilty about leaving his former friend on the fiery shores... and guilty about letting down the Jedi Order.

That last one was key: Obi-Wan knew he couldn't kill Anakin, and admitted as much to Yoda. But not killing him led Anakin to become even more twisted and evil, with a huge amount of blood on his hands.

19 years of pondering these failures made Obi-Wan essentially rationalize his past actions... to the point where it all became "a certain point of view."
MissPadme
Miss Padme's Naboo Love Nest
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 8:52 PM
My theory is that Obi-Wan lost faith in the whole Chosen One prophecy after Mustafar. He only saw Luke as young and powerful enough to defeat Vader and the Emperor.
padmeskywalker77
Padme's Legacy
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 10:14 PM
Wonderful entry Janlomona, and very-well presented!! I touched on some of these things in a couple of my previous entries not too long ago. I believe that Luke carried Padme's dying words with him from the moment she spoke them...only he did not know it. These words resurfaced at the "right" time for Luke to say them to Anakin in order to save him from himself. Luke was able to do what Padme' was not...to save Anakin.

(Cont...)
padmeskywalker77
Padme's Legacy
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 10:15 PM
Now, as far as Obi-Wan is concerned...I believe that he had lost faith in Anakin, that he felt that he was beyond redemption. However, upon hearing Luke's words, Padme's words, once more, things may have started to change. Maybe the little hope that was there resurfaced, and he felt that Luke was the one to do it.

I, too want to know what other secret Obi-Wan was hiding ?:|
  Oboe-Wan
Oboe-Wan's Hive of Scum & Villainy
date Posted: Oct 25, 2006 11:11 PM
Was separating the two the only way he could sleep at night, justifying the execution of a man he considered a brother?
Yes, that's what I think. the only way he could live w/himself was to say Vader is this guy, Anakin was this other guy. This way he wasn't killing "Anakin" he was just killing "Vader" the bad guy. This is interesting...

And yes, do tell what you think his other secret is? You've got my brain in a tizzy because now I'm wondering if you subscribe to the whole "Luke & Leia are Ben's kids" wild & crazy theory?! Killing off Anakin/Vader would mean eliminating the only other person alive who would know the truth.

Of course I'm just saying that for shock factor.... so spill the beans!!!!
  Kursav Wilage
date Posted: Oct 26, 2006 12:02 AM
I believe that Luke carried Padme's dying words with him from the moment she spoke them...only he did not know it.

I thought the same when I heard Padmes dying words . Now I know that I'm not the only one .........

Great blog !

I think that Obi-wan's thinking that Anakin could not be turned back from the dark side was partly because he was still trapped in the dogmatic thinking that led to the fall of Anakin and the Jedi . Also maybe Obi-wans judgement on Vader was biased by the severe feeling of betrayal he felt from what someone he loved as a brother did to him and the Jedi ....


janlomona
Smugglers Rants
date Posted: Oct 26, 2006 12:04 AM
Wow, no pressure there then! :p
I do think there is more to what Ben believes, and in most part it's been touched upon here in the replies, but I also reckon there's another blog entirely to chat about that one, so I'll babble my nonsensical smugglers rant there.
Cheers for all the replies folks, always nice to wake up before work and find so many replies to a blog.
Oboe, I shall email you some photos through later this week from the wedding, should have some back today.
  Tar_Ranth
Bounty Hunters Pride - the ramblings of Louis Turfrey
date Posted: Oct 29, 2006 4:51 AM
Had Obi-Wan killed Anakin outright, the Emperor would have had to have found another apprentice, Luke would never have had the chance to redeem his father and the Galaxy might still be held within the grasp of the Galactic Empire...

So, from a certain point of view - Obi-Wan did the right thing by leaving Anakin to die. Maybe he was directed by the Force - stranger things have happened.
janlomona
Smugglers Rants
date Posted: Oct 29, 2006 9:13 AM
Good point, but if Ben had killed Anakin then the Emperor would have been at a disadvantage, because he would need an apprentice as much as he ever had, once Anakin was dead, and with Dooku sacrificed to gain Anakin he would have had to start his search for a new apprentice all over again.
Plus, Order 66 wiped out almost all the Jedi that he could potentially turn to the darkside, so a dead Anakin would have seriously weakened his powerbase.
And remember, it was Vader and his fearsome image and reputation that kept many of the Emperors minions in line.
  Tar_Ranth
Bounty Hunters Pride - the ramblings of Louis Turfrey
date Posted: Oct 30, 2006 2:12 PM
I don't think the Emperor's power base would have been too weakened - as I believe he had already groomed alternatives to Vader. Take Mara Jade for example - a powerful Dark Jedi, who was held back from learning more than she needed to know. about the dark side of the Force.When she turned to the Light Side, she truly revelaed her strength in the Force. There is nothing to say that she was the first Emperors Hand.

And just because Vader was given the task of wiping out all the Jedi shouldn't preclude the Emperor and Vader from recruiting any of the non-sith Dark Jedi that still existed. They would make powerful allies, and could still be used as fearmongers.
janlomona
Smugglers Rants
date Posted: Oct 30, 2006 2:39 PM
Fair comment, but as far as George Lucas was concerned there are only 2 Jedi and 2 Sith to talk about - Yoda, Obi-Wan, Vader and Palpatine. Lucas couldn't give a fig about Mara Jade, dark Jedi or anything else, even though fans of the EU like you and me are very much interested in the alternatives that they bring up.
Without Vader and with all the effort in recruiting him the Emperor would have been greatly weakened, and there simply was no one else (with the death of Dooku) set to take Vaders place. It's concievable that without Anakin, Palpatine may well have had to rule as a lone Sith.
Unless he was able to clone himself like Jango...
janlomona
Smugglers Rants
date Posted: Oct 30, 2006 2:43 PM
Another thought. Palpatine invested SO much in Anakin that not only was he prepared to lose Asajj Ventress, Count Dooku and General Grievous, he was also more than prepared to accept a vastly weakened Darth Vader as his apprentice.
Imagine if Anakin had won that battle on Mustafar. Not only would we have had a full strength Vader, without the suit and mask, but we would have likely had a power struggle between him and Palpatine many years before their final confrontation on the Death Star.
From Palpatines point of view, Kenobi did him a HUGE favour.
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