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Keeper of the Holocron's Blog
date posted: May 06, 2011 1:30 PM  |  updated: May 06, 2011 2:44 PM
starwars.com forum HolocronKeeper comments archive
DarthMRN has compiled this list of comments I made on the starwars.com forums. On the Dark Horse boards he asked me to post them in some official form before the sw.com forums get taken down. So here they are. I made a few minor edits, but the bulk of the info remains the same.

When was the actual cutoff point between "older stuff that may or may not fit", and modern continuity testing?
There wasn't really a cutoff point. When I started the Holocron, there were various folks who had differing opinions on what was and wasn't part of the official continuity. Anything whose continuity was in question was initially designated as S-continuity, including the Marvel comics, the WEG RPG, junior novels, video games, the newspaper strip comics; pretty much anything in the EU that wasn't an adult novel, a current comic series, or a non-fiction title (ie The Guide to the Star Wars Universe, the Encyclopedia, the DK books, and the Essential Guides).

What is the current canon ranking of the Marvel comics?
S-canon, with stuff that has been referenced as C-canon.

Is the holiday special, or at least most of it, considered C-canon? If so, which specific parts aren't?
Aside from things already referenced in later sources, I'd consider it S-Canon. EU creators can take or leave those parts however they see fit.

But are they examined (whether they fit into the continuity) before the new resources are being encouraged to involve them?
Certainly. Keep in mind that we are not "promoting" Secondary Canon Holocron entries by the entire source, just by the individual entry.

And just to add a bit more confusion, yes there are some items from the Infinities comics that are in the Holocron. And yes, something in Infinities could theoretically become canon. For example, if someone wanted to name a shuttle the Tarquinas in something not classified as Infinities, that non-continuity entry would become continuity.


Canon: G+C+S
Continuity: G+C
Is it right?
Not exactly. Continuity and canon and pretty much the same thing as far as the Holocron goes.

jSarek suggested that the G set contained GL's (unpublished) thoughts. While theoretically I agree (since everything in the future will be affected by them), I think as long as they are unpublished, they practically do not exist.
The Holocron canon field is entirely for internal purposes. And yes, G canon contains many of GL's unpublished ideas which are of utmost importance to us because it often dictates much of what we can and cannot do in the EU.

Is it [S-canon] a 'container' for older resources that are not yet completely checked but will be placed to either C or N after inspection?
That about sums it up, though "inspection" only occurs as needed when it is referenced in something else.

Are the entries in the Holocron sorted as canonical & non-canonical? Are there various degrees of "officialness"?
The database does indeed have a canon field for each individual entry and for sources, though the canon level of the entry would override the canon level of the source since it factors in other sources associated with that entry. When determining canon levels for individual entries, anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon. A new level we recently added is "T" canon, comprising of the theatrical release of The Clone Wars and the television series, in addition to the planned live-action television series. Next we have what we call continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else from the EU. There is a secondary "S" continuity classification used for older published materials created when there was less attention to making everything in the EU fit with everything else in the EU. But, if it is referenced in something else it becomes "C". Similarly, any "C" canon entry that makes it into the films can become "G" canon. Lastly there is non-continuity "N" which we rarely use except in the case of a blatant contradiction. Any contradictions that arise are dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

Okay, I know that the novels are C-level, and I assume that most of the newer comics are also C-level. Where on the continuity spectrum to the Video games come in?
"...continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. " By everything else I mean EVERYthing else. Novels, comics, junior novels, videogames, trading card games, roleplaying games, toys, websites, [80's] television. As I've mentioned earlier, any contradictions that arise are dealt on a case-by-case. This has been our general approach to continuity since we began using the Holocron database to track it.

Are novelisations of the films considered G-level or C-level material?
In a nutshell, anything created by the author would be C-level. Anything in the the novels created by George Lucas (whether it comes from unpublished early script versions, unpublished author interviews with George, or George's revisions to the novelization manuscript) would be G-level unless contradicted by the films.

It gets a little more complicated when something is seen on-screen but not named. So the "shuura fruit" mentioned in the AOTC novel would be G because you see it in the film, although the author came up with the name.


Does the database have any information on how to pronounce the names?
Yes, the Holocron does have a primitive pronunciation field that spells out how to say new Star Wars words. This information is important for use with videogame voicelines, written Japanese translations, audio books, and pronunciation guides included with some of our reference titles like the New Essential Guide Characters. The pronunciations are entered into the database on an as-needed basis. Oftentimes, the authors will provide the editors with pronunciation guides for names that they have created for use with the Japanese translations and audiobooks.

Does the Holocron go into detail about ship controls?
No, it doesn't go into that much detail. The best it can do is provide sources where you might be able to find these types of details.

[Clone Wars Adventures:]
We definitely are willing to grant a bit more leeway with continuity given the style of these books. For example, we probably wouldn't have let a Republic comic get away with Yoda carrying the big gun in the crate that he has in Adventures #3. Ultimately these comics are all about having fun.

is it at all possible that Brianna's adventures with [the Jedi Exile] could still be canon?
Maybe.

For starters, how canon would something in the novelization be, even if contradicted by the films (IE: Mace says Palpatine was too strong for him in the Force, when no line is in the movie)?
As a line of dialogue in the novel but not in the film in a single scene, then it wouldn't be continuity. Authors are given more leeway with dialogue than you'd expect. If it's just narrative, or someone's thoughts, or could fit in a scene between scenes, then it could certainly be valid.

[Is Clone Wars EU?]
The Clone Wars will not be considered Expanded Universe. They'll be ranked up there with The Movies. T-canon in its entirety is not supposed to be considered part of the EU pillar, but part of the Lucas pillar.

But I assume the honorable mentions remain non-canon--or at best ambiguously canon along the same lines as, say, the Polyhedron material.
What makes something part of continuity is approval by Lucasfilm/Lucas Licensing. So it doesn't make a difference whether it was a winner or an honorable mention, they're all going to be treated equally as far as the Holocron is concerned. With regard to the Polyhedron material, if we're talking about the material created after 2003, then yes, it is considered part of continuity, because it went through Licensing for approval. I don't know of the Polyhedron material from 90's being approved by Licensing, so I can't include it as part of continuity in the Holocron.

What kind of canon citation do you have [for Design An Alien] in the Holocron--C-canon, N-canon, or ... ?
Secondary continuity.

does it follow that N'Kata Del Gormo is actually canon, since it's not directly overruled by another source?
The existence of such character is part of continuity, but his appearance on Dagobah would not be, since the time of Ep III is the first time that Yoda ever sets foot on Dagobah as noted in the Revenge of the Sith novelization.

The database does indeed have a canon field for each individual entry and for sources, though the canon level of the entry would override the canon level of the source since it factors in other sources associated with that entry.

Who created the G, [T], C,S,N canon hierarchy?
I did, when I created the Holocron after internal discussions.

Does this mean that if a C-canon source contains a little snippet of canon-contradictory information, this little snippet is simply disregarded from the entry detailing the topic in question?
Correct as the other posters have said, and the contradiction is noted in the Continuity Notes.

How much of the continuity do you write or rewrite?
Authors and editors often ask for suggestions on an existing planet, species, or character to use or to see what can and can't be done with a certain character. When going through approvals, I'll make small changes as necessary to make things fits within continuity. I'm often asked to be involved in the early concept discussions for new stories. When continuity conflicts arise, I may make note of the issue in Holocron and come up with a couple of potential explanations which may or may not be considered in the future. Sometimes we'll create names as needed. Beyond that, we leave the actual writing to the authors.

What exactly are the fight scenes in the movie novelizations considered in terms of canon?
What we see in the films is the canon version of events. All other versions are developed specifically for their respective medium.

Wouldn't the fact that the novels contradict the movies on so many different occasions render them invalid?
Are you talking the novels as a whole? No. Contradictions are always dealt with case-by-case.

Ewok television movies...
As far as the Holocron is concerned, they are treated as 'C' canon. While George did have some involvement in creating the initial story for those, I don't have any reference material indicating which parts are George's vision and which are the creation of the writers and directors of the movies.

And all G level would mean GL himself checks over it right?
G-level canon has nothing to do with GL checking over anything. It's anything that can be taken from the films or internal notes from him which can come from discussions, early drafts, or comments on GL-approved text. The G/C/S-level canon stuff is a construct specifically for the Holocron. Non-Holocron users would have no idea what this stuff even means and I would say most of the people who use the Holocron don't use the field, instead looking specifically to the source of the material. Individual entries are not broken down by canon level.
This is how I use it:
- We need a list of characters from the films. I'll do a search of characters by G-canon.
- We need a list of some planets from the films and the EU. I'll do a search for planets sorted by canon to determine which ones are going to recognized by more people.
- Source A contradicts Source B. More likely than not, if Source A is from the films and Source B is from the EU, we'll use Source A. Of course, there can always be exceptions which is why the case-by-case determination is always in effect no matter what the Sources.


Galaxies...are there any plot elements that make it into the Holocron, or is most of what can be referenced setting/character material?
Mostly setting/character material. Plot setups, like the Dead Eye Project are also included.

In the Holocron, we track continuity by Holocron entry and not by source. What that means is, a particular source would never be discounted in its entirety, only those elements of that source that are contradictory. Hence, while there may be individual elements of say the Marvel Comics or the Holiday Special that are considered non-continuity, all the other parts can still be valid.

Does LFL have official listings for when the stories in "Visionaries" are set? Or even, which ones "happened" and which ones are infinities?
The Darth Maul story is non-continuity, the Wat Tambor story is possible continuity as outlandish as it is, the Sidious story is kinda continuity ("from a certain point of view"), the "The Fourth Precept" is anybody's guess, and the "Celestia Galactica Photografica" exists as works of art within continuity. The rest should fit and for the most part you'll know when these are set by reading them.

Are there different layers within the N, S, C, [T] and G levels?
The Holocron makes no such distinction.

Are deleted scenes considered G-level?
Yes, unless they conflict with something else seen in the films or if the reasoning behind deleting the scene keeps it from being continuity.

I've always wondered, what StarWars games are considered canon in the EU universe?
The short answer is, the stuff that fits.There has definitely been a greater effort to make newer games fit within the rest EU than in years past. Then again, some games are made purely for fun such as games like Demolition, Masters of Teräs Käsi, Yoda Stories, and Super Bombad Racing.

Are any Star Wars Tales issues #1-20 characters ,etc. included in the Holocron? If so, could you name a few?
All of them are included, with varying levels of "canonicity". Look up "Skippy the Jedi Droid," and you'll get an entry. Lurdo? Yep, he's in there. Slabba Drewl, Drell Kahmf, George R. Binks and Melvin Fett too.

Which [Tales elements] are C-canon?
Consider everything that's not completely outrageous or intentionally comic as S-canon. If it's referenced in another non-Tales source, then elevate it to C-canon. I'd definitely consider several aspects of the "Princess Leia Diaries" like the water balloon on Tarkin and Leia channeling the dance moves of Elaine Bennis as intentionally comic.

does the Holocron contain any listings of individual capital ships that have been identified by name or hull number and their current disposition/ultimate fate? Sort of like an official version of Kaelis's Asset Tracking site...
I don't think the Holocron is as extensive with some of its older entries as Asset Tracking. Each newly named ship, however minor, is given its own entry with a full description, and as the ship's history evolves, the description is updated. Any major stats that are available (ie size, manufacturer, weapons, etc.)are also noted. If an image is available, we will include that as well. But for older entries, such as minor ships from the West End Games RPG or the X-wing videogames, the ships are lumped together in a single entry by source, with little or no details. If those ships are used in a later source, they are then given their own entry.

Does the Holocron contain details that haven't been published, and aren't necessarily meant for future use, but are merely there for possible reference use?
Definitely. But since the information hasn't been published, there is always a chance that this information can change. Examples of unpublished material include timelines and organizational charts used solely for reference. The internal notes known as the New Jedi Order "bible" are another.

How does the Holocron deal with continuity issues which haven't yet received a definite retcon, or in which the storyline hasn't been fully fleshed out? How Sadow ultimately ends up there after going into exile on Yavin IV seems to be unknown - how would the Holocron record this?
In general, the Holocron does not attempt to fill in untold storylines to give future authors complete flexibility if they wished to fill the gaps. I will sometimes make a note in the Continuity Notes that there is story that could be fleshed out. Who knows, maybe Freedon Nadd had some of the remains moved.

Isn't there just a possibility to state 'this particular game is just a game' and not to include the events in de Holocron?
Some games are certainly "just games" like LEGO Star Wars. Other games are "just games" that happen to contain characters, creatures, locations, and technology that are part of continuity, like Masters of Teräs Käsi, Demolition, and Battlefront. I myself like games driven by a story, and I think there are many who would agree, which would probably explain the inclusion of story-driven campaigns in Battlefront II and Empire at War. And finally, you've got something like Knights of the Old Republic in which the game is all about story. Story has and always will be an important factor in Star Wars games but certainly, there's always room to just have a little fun.

Why include games in the Holocron?
Because we consider video games just as valid as any other medium for telling Star Wars stories.

Also does the 'cron discriminate between in-universe/factual and in-universe/opinion?
Whenever possible.

are images considered canon?
Yes. Blade colors were retconned after Ep I to keep in line with George's vision for Ep II. A character's hair color being blond or brown might just be artistic license, but for lightsabers, we pay careful attention to try to get it right.

Just a quick question: what (if anything) is the continuity status for the RPG scenarios that were published in Polyhedron magazine in the 1990s, most of which appeared under the byline or co-authorship of WEG's Bill Slavicsek?
My understanding is that the 90's Polyhedron articles did not go through the LFL approval process, thus they have not been considered official continuity.

Tasty, do the folks at WOTC check with you or anyone else at Lucas Licensing before doing these things?
Everything goes through Licensing for continuity approval, though admittedly, we oftentimes have to rely on the expertise of the authors for some of the nitty gritty details.
Though I'm not sure of the certain circumstances for the bizarre border in this case, my guess is that it is to compensate for some throwaway line that appeared in a card game or roleplaying sourcebook that had to be reconciled.


Is the Clone Wars micro-series considered continuity?
Yes. [Aside from anything that might conflict with the current The Clone Wars series]
A Republic assault ship can't carry that many gunships? all those clone troopers couldn't possibly have survived that crash? how can Durge lift up and destroy those tanks so easily? Durge's neck is way too long? where are the tattoos on Asajj's head? the micro-series isn't realistic!
One of the caveats to the micro-series being continuity is that the micro-series is an interpretation of Star Wars. There are definitely stylistic and narrative choices that the creators have made specifically for the medium.

Regarding the OT novelizations, there is no intent to update them. If you want a version more accurate to the current version of the films, I'd suggest taking a look at the Scholastic junior novels from 2004 by Ryder Windham. Regarding The Clone Wars movie novelization, these were done a bit differently than our prequel trilogy novels (I'm not exactly sure how it was handled in the OT novels). For the prequel trilogy novels, each of the authors met directly with George Lucas to discuss story points and character motivations. The Clone Wars is more of an interpretation of the movie script (actually more like a hybrid of the individual episodic scripts which make up the movie including scenes that were done for the episodes but were cut from the movie as well as scenes that were created specifically for the movie that weren't in the individual episodes). There also wasn't any direct contact this time around between the novelization author and George Lucas or the writers and director. And as with the previous novelizations, anything created by the author or taken from previous EU is considered C-Canon and anything from the scripts and movie are T-Canon. The main difference between George Lucas's "3-Pillars" and the Holocron's canon system is that the Holocron system does not take into account any of the 3rd Pillar fan-generated material. This material is not represented in the Holocron unless it gets canonized by an official source. The 501st Legion, R2-KT, What's the Story, etc. are just some examples.

It has been claimed that LL can't make decisions on things from the movies (or rather explain things as the case is with the Incredible Cross-Sections and Locations reference works etc.) as that would somehow go against Mr. Lucas's intentions.
If George Lucas has any intentions on things not in the films that he wants Licensing to avoid, he lets us know. He usually doesn't concern himself too much with minutia like how big is this ship or what is this species name, so much of that is left to the discretion of Licensing.

Are game mechanics (video games or rpg) canon? For example, does a rpg damage rating like "7d" mean anything? If a C-canon source (like a novel or reference book) contradicts what the game mechanics say, will the book win out?
Game mechanics are designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created. They can serve to provide a scale from which to compare how one character or piece of technology stacks up against another. Because RPGs use dice, there is always the element of random chance involved, which isn't quite applicable to a book. But stats themselves aren't created randomly; they are based on what is already known. As such, we can always look to them as a basis when writing books. I often look to RPG stats to see for example, what type of Force powers a character may have. Or if we haven't determined the stats of a particular vehicle, we can look to RPG stats for a basis of comparison. Conversely, I think it would be a detriment if books were artificially limited by game stats. So I would agree that a book is going to overrule a stat if there is a contradiction.

what standing in canon statements by George Lucas have. I always thought that they constituted G-canon, but I just wanted to make sure.
In the Holocron, the different levels of continuity are only given for an entry in its entirety; not by individual pieces of information. Therefore, an entry would not say that this part of the entry is G-canon and the other is C-canon, though this might be inferred from the source. As always, contradictions are dealt with case-by-case. Obviously, things that come from the films and from George usually take a higher priority than other sources. But when taking George's statements into account for the Holocron's continuity notes, I have to consider a) when the statement was made (something he said from the 70's may no longer pertain to his current vision of +Star Wars+), b) the source of the statement (a non-LFL source could be a misquote), and c) the context of the statement (was George making a joke or off-the cuff remark? Was it something said to someone behind-the-scenes to elicit a certain performance, not necessarily part of continuity?) There are relatively few notes from George in the Holocron that are derived from public statements; most of the notes from him are from things that George gives to Licensing directly.

Are all NPC characters in Galaxies canon?
Unless you've noticed a conflict, then yes, they are canon. I'm not 100% sure I have all of them documented in the Holocron, though. I get my info primarily from the strategy guides and the website.

Does this include Star Wars: Episode I: Racer/Battlefront I:
Story is S, but locations, characters, and technology are C.And by extension, Battlefront II
Story is C.

should we assume anything in Galaxies itself that doesn't appear in the strategy guides and websites (if anything) would be treated in the same take-it-or-leave-it fashion as S-canon materials?
No, still C-canon, it's just less likely to be referenced. I can always contact the Galaxies development team should I need to confirm anything in the game.

the Handmaiden's and Hanharr's backstory .... Are the backstories themselves still canon, though, even if the character can't canonically learn them?
Yes.

Greedo in Episode IV is now the very same Greedo in "Sphere of Influence" and the Episode I deleted scene "Anakin Scuffles with Greedo" (not to be confused with Ani's friend Wald, the young Rodian in the final cut of the film.) This does negate some of the backstory from Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina and the retcon saying that the deleted scene Greedo was actually Greedo's dad, Greedo the Elder. We felt it important to make this change so that it is more consistent with George Lucas's vision for the character. It'll be up to future authors to decide what parts of the Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina story are still salvageable, though we'll likely keep the part where Wuher takes Greedo's body and turns it into a drink. Maybe the rest of the backstory goes to Greedo the Elder, or maybe there's yet another Rodian named Greedo out there.

Has it been officially confirmed that when a cover contradicts a novel or other C-canon, then the C-canon takes presedence?
Covers are covers. Yeah, sometimes they depict a scene in the book, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the elements are correct, sometimes they aren't. It's an artist's interpretation of something the artist hasn't read. The author can offer suggestions, etc., but sometimes the author hasn't finished writing the book yet. If you look at books in the bookstore, the covers, more often than not, don't have much to do with what's going on inside the book. With SW, we've tried to get covers to stay true to what's happening inside, but it's rarely completely possible. I think we've done a very, very good job with our covers in conveying the sense and feeling of the books. Personally, I don't think covers should be cannon at all...... an exception might be when an EU character who has never been seen before shows up on a cover, then we'd use that as future reference... but people need to be realistic about these things.