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 | MasterMonkey13date posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:21 AM | updated: Jul 17, 2006 7:10 PM |
 | How long? |
 "Anakin's the father, isn't he?" These are very famous words for Obi-Wan, perhaps stated to try and sway Padme to tell Obi where he is. Or stated to persuade Padme to go to Anakin, and then Obi would do what he did, hide away.
But along with these words comes an even greater mystery. One that we shall perhaps never know. How did Obi know? and, How long did Obi-Wan know? It's apparent that some of Padme's actions to Obi-Wan's facts that Anakin killed younglings, helps Obi to know that Anakin is married.
But even if he knew that they were married, how did he know that Anakin was a father? Can the Force tell you such things? Padme made a great effort at hiding the size of her belly for a long time. But if Obi-Wan knew, how long did he know? Did he know during the Clone Wars? Did he know during the battle over Courscant? Did he ever wonder where Anakin went every night? But if Obi knew for a long time, why didn't he do something about it?
Nothing that happened while Obi and Padme were talking clearly gave away the fact that she was carring a baby.
But if Obi knew, and we don't know for how long, did Yoda know? Mace? The council?
Well that's my question, I can only guess that Obi-wan knew by observing Padme's actions to the fact that Anakin is a Sith. But how long? No clue. Thoughts and observations are gladly welcomed. I don't know if the LILWA have already done something like this, it sounds like something they would write about, if so sorry.
Hey, hey, hey!!!! Front page. Thanks everyone!
May the Force be with us all! God bless!
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http://blogs.starwars.com/huo2459iuS/28 |
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viagoangel2
Were Anakin and Padme' really one?
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:38 AM
HOW DID OBI-WAN KNOW? AND FOR HOW LONG?
VIAGOLICIOUS here to help, well at least try to. Ahem.... In LOE novel, Obi-wan knows that Anakin and Padme are *serious* . The whole "MARRIAGE" conversation comes up during a *LAY OVER* on one of the planets they were on. Obi-wan has always known about the two having an *affair* he just never voiced it, because him playing *ignorant* to it pleased Anakin. I think the whole *MARRIAGE TO BOTH* concept that Obi-wan used with Anakin was a metaphor, he was letting Anakin know that HE DID INDEED KNOW.
Obi-wan didn't want to play *COY* any longer, they had a JOB to do. (cont.)
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anakinside1
Echoes from the Asteroid Field
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:41 AM
There's a weird dynamic in open secrets. They're things that everyone knows and nobody talks about. I think that's what was going on here. Lots of people knew Anakin and Padme had feelings for each other, lots of people knew Padme was pregnant, and everyone's minds were too clouded (not by the dark side, just regular human clouds) to connect the dots consciously and see that 1+1 still equals 2.
Knowing and acknowledging out loud are two different things.
Great blog!
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jedivan2
Jedivan's Viewpoint
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:43 AM
According to the novelization, as Padme swoons because of Obi-Wan's news and he helps her onto the sofa, her pregnancy is revealed. The script as it appears in The Art of Revenge of the Sith portrays the scene the same way. However, as filmed, it's a little hard to see. But, essentially Obi-Wan learned about the pregancy when he helped her onto the sofa.
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viagoangel2
Were Anakin and Padme' really one?
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:44 AM
During that whole conversation in LOE, Anakin tries to hide an onset of tears from Obi-wan after speaking to the chancellor by holotransceiver as per Obi-wan's request. See, Obi-wan knew that Anakin depserately wanted to go *home* aka to Padme. His emotions were strained, so Anakin was about to ask the Chancellor to send him back to Corouscant.(spelling). Anakin couldn't get up the nerve and apologized to Padme in his thoughts......on his way back to Obi-wan, he noticed Anakin's red strained eyes (knew he was crying) So I think Obi-wan could sense there was indeed *MORE* going on with the 2.......Just thoughts I don't know for sure, but I strongly feel that Obi-wan knew .....GOOD BLOG. 
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comanderbly
That's Impossible. Even for a Computer.
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:47 AM
I do not think Yoda or Mace knew. When Yoda and Obi-Wan are getting the medical report on Padme (after the Obi-Wan/Anakin duel) the droid says - "we must act quickly if we are to save the babies." Yoda totally gives Obi-Wan the "stink eye" (maybe just a pensive look) and Obi-Wan looks away. I am interpretting that to mean Yoda is surprised and did not know. -- I might be wrong about that though.
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Darth OCD
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:58 AM
Good Blog!
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Oocleenee
KViKJNJJ
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 8:00 AM
I have not read a book about iot but from the many times I have seen the film it is obvious that Obi-wan senses it becaiuse of Padme's unwillingness to cough up Anakin.
He could just tell and bluntly asked her. I don't think there is any big mystery to it in the least.
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hansgirl3
Invoking the Squee
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 8:26 AM
I think Obi-wan had a feeling about their relationship for awile, but didn't "know" anything until he went to talk to Padme that one day. As Jedivan pointed out, when Obi helped her to the sofa, he could literally feel that she was pregnant.
You would think that Jedi senses would help them be more "in tune" with things like that, but maybe not.
They are still men after all.  j/k
Really, though, this was a great blog!! 
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Boricualrg@aol.com
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 8:51 AM
Jedilily1026 here. I have blog written in May?? about this. My questions were how could the Jedi not suspect something was "up" with Anakin.
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DJ Maul: Got Feet?
DJ Maul's Dancin' Cantina Party
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 8:53 AM
I agree with the general consensus that Obi Wan knew a LOT more than he let on over the years, or if did not KNOW as fact at least suspected.
He put 2 + 2 together eventually and when push came to shove let Padme know he KNEW.
And yea, it worked, as she led him to Anakin on Mustafar.
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MomOf2YoungPadawan
Mamadala's Lair
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 10:19 AM
Good afternoon, MasterMonkey13!
(Or morning, depending on which time zone you're in!)
I would first like to echo everyone in saying "good blog!"
I pondered this question quite a bit myself until - as Angel points out - the novels LOE and ROTS really give you the sense that indeed Obi-Wan knew....or at least more than strongly suspected....that Anakin and Padme were married (at least involved) and that Ani was the father.
That's why I LOVE reading the books - they really give you soooooooooo much more "backstory" and insight to what is going on. Books give such a better depth of understanding than even watching the movies 100+ times (cont.......)
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MomOf2YoungPadawan
Mamadala's Lair
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 10:22 AM
....Cont.....
As AS1 points out: everyone's minds were too clouded (not by the dark side, just regular human clouds) to connect the dots consciously and see that 1+1 still equals 2.. There was, after all, a war going on. People had more on their plates than the Ani/Padme drama. Although....what a HoloNet story THAT would have been !!!
BTW, thanks for a "shout out" to the LILWA......  !!!!
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MomOf2YoungPadawan
Mamadala's Lair
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 10:24 AM
Ooooppsss...I called you by your blog title....  Sorry! Soooooooo embarrassing....
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The Guardian of Light
Light Shines Brightest in the Dark
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 11:03 AM
It may be hard to really know for sure when Obi-wan found out about her pregnancy, there are so many different ideas. I believe that Obi-wan told her that because he was truly sorry and he wanted her to know not only that he knew but that he too cared about Anakin. I'm sure he wanted her to know then not to make her go but simply to tell her. i'm sure he thought that he had spent all that time not saying anything until it was too late. I also believe that he knew from the very beginning that they were married but he loved Anakin so much that whatever made Anakin happy also made him happy. No matter what you think about; a profound and difficult question it is.
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padmeskywalker77
Padme's Legacy
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 11:16 AM
thanks for a "shout out" to the LILWA
Yes, thanks.
You do make some good points here about how long did Obi-Wan know about Padme's pregnancy. Until I read LOE and ROTS, I had no clue as to who knew what and when. Obi-Wan, IMO, knew something was going on between Anakin and Padme', otherwise he would not have made that comment about you can't be married to both. (Cont...)
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padmeskywalker77
Padme's Legacy
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 11:17 AM
Now, did he know about the pregnancy before he spoke with her about Anakin turning, that is more difficult to answer. I'm sure he suspected something...but they were away fighting in the Outer Rim Sieges during most of her pregnancy, so I don't think he really knew that until later. I also agree with AS1 about open secrets--that everyone knows something but they do not say or do anything. Again, some really great thoughts, here, usetheforce19
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Qui-Tom Servo loves Padme
You Must Unlearn What You Have Learned
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 11:35 AM
I wonder too if Obi-Wan felt the children through the Force. And Obi-Wan did know that Anakin was spending time with Padme, but he let it slide because it made Anakin happy. Obi-Wan knew the boy was troubled. That's part of why Sidious needed to keep him away from Anakin during the crucial moments in ROTS.
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usetheforce19
MasterMonkey13
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 11:53 AM
Ooooppsss...I called you by your blog title
No problem.
Thanks to everyone, y'all have really good points.
May the Force be with us all! God bless!
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MSenatorPadmeNAmidalaSkywalker
Padme's Term as queen
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 4:25 PM
Umm, I actually read a boom that said she sat down and her gown showed her pregnancy. Obi-Wan, gathering the defiance from Padme of believing Anakin could never turn to the dark side, reached into the force and found the truth sitting right in front of him.
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usetheforce19
MasterMonkey13
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:00 PM
Woo-hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to everyone for helping my blog make the front page!!!!!!!!! So there I was going to check on the blogs when I see my blog on the front page. Thanks to everyone!
May the Force be with us all! God bless!
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knott@capital.net
Blogs By Grace
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:09 PM
Obi-Wan had already known about anakin and padme,
im not sure, but i think the council did too, just nobody said anything because seriously, they weren't going to expel anakin, the chosen one, so why bring up the topic? also, saying something might have angered anakin, because naturally the only thing to say would be trying to steer him away from his love.
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stormraiderjedidragon
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:40 PM
In the RotS novel, it said that Obi-Wan knew for a very long time. I think it makes sense considering Anakin was never great at hiding his feelings (at all).
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retard18426
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:51 PM
I think Obi-Wan suspected something before Anakin and Padme even entered the forbidden relationship. I forget the exact dialogue, but early on in Attack of the Clones, Anakin briefly discusses his nightmares about his mother with Obi-Wan, and says to him, "I would much rather dream about Padme." Though the two certainly had their frustrations with each other, they also seemed to have a lot of trust during their time as master and padawan.
cont.....
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retard18426
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 7:53 PM
....cont
I think that this alerted Obi-Wan to Anakin's desires right from the start, but he chose to ignore it because he loved Anakin "like a brother," and did not want to be responsible for the pain of having his best friend, and the Chosen One who was destined to bring balance to the Force, expelled from the Jedi Order.
Another huge clue for Obi-Wan in AotC was Anakin's devastation upon seeing Padme thrown from the gunship, but again, I think Kenobi always suspected, yet never let on, regarding the secret marriage of the Skywalkers.
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PokeDeb
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 9:20 PM
Hi am new to this whole blog and comment system, but I thought I should start somewhere so here I go...
Well I think Obi-wan knew that Anakin had feelings for Padme, as that was made obvious in Ep. II. Especially when they went to see her at the beginning of the movie, Anakin blatantly tells his master that he is happy to be in her presence and fusses over whether she even remembers him.
Anakin and Padme did a decent job of hiding their marriage, and as was said before people were a little preoccupied with the clone wars to be worrying about the private life of a Jedi. Also the Jedi couldn't really afford to expel Anakin from the Jedi order at that point in time.
To be continued.....
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PokeDeb
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 9:21 PM
Part II Obi-wan knew, but didn't know
Basically Obi-wan must have suspected something, especially from Anakin's displays of affection (the scene towards the end of Ep. II when Anakin insists on putting the ship down for Padme) and the fact that Padme looked pregnant throughout Ep III. However he didn't have time to investigate it further.
The fact that he went to Padme to find out the whereabouts of Anakin in Ep III proves that he knew that there was definitely a relationship between them, what the nature of that relationship was however, he was not fully aware.
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ithekro
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date Posted: Jul 17, 2006 10:58 PM
Something that came out of the above comments...the need to get Obi-wan way from Anakin at his darkest moments. The sense that had Obi-wan been there when Anakin needed someone to turn to, or even in the final fight with Mace and Palpatine, Anakin might have chosen his Jedi friend over his Sith friend. i don't know if Obi-wan would have survived the confrontation with Palpatine long enough for Anakin to arrive though. I think Anakin even thinks about this in the novel. Wishes Obi-wan was there to help him make a choice...and choice he doesn't want to be forced to make, but in the end does and Vadar wins.
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Thomas75
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 2:14 AM
Obi-wan knew there was something going on between Padme and Anakin ever since the Battle of Genosis. You remeber the way Anakin freaked when Padme fell out of the ship as they were chasing Count Dooku. Obi-wan knew then that Anakin felt very strongly for her. It wasn't until after the fight with Dooku though that Obi-wan realised the feeling was mutal. Remember Padme running up to Anakin after he'd been hurt. Yoda saw that too.
Obi-wan being Anakin's friend thought that it was just something that he'd grow out of and if they were apart then it could never develop into anything more serious. He was wrong.
..........
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Thomas75
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 2:14 AM
........
As for knowing Padme was pregnant, well he's a Jedi he could sense the lives growing inside her no matter how much she hid her stomach. All the Jedi who came in contact with Padme would have been able to tell she was pregnant too. Obi-wan and probably Yoda would have been the only ones who could put 2 and 2 together and tell that Anakin was the most likely father.
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usetheforce19
MasterMonkey13
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 5:24 AM
I agree with you all, Obi-Wan must have known for some time, but for how long? Episode II? Well, it makes sense. I also strongly agee with the thoughts of ithekro. About Anakin needing someone to be there with him, but yet Anakin completely turns down Padme's suggestion of their getting Obi-Wan to help, and I think Obi could have helped. Also, it's nice to meet you PokeDeb, I hope you enjoy the blogs.
May the Force be with us all! God bless!
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isuretri
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 6:31 AM
In the LOE, Obi knows there is something between Anakin and Padme, but he chooses to set it aside for Anakin. He knows that Anakin is the chosen one and is to bring peace to the galaxy. He knows that Padme makes Anakin happy.
In the novel ROTS, Padme almost faints at the news Obi brings about Anakin killing the younglings and Obi helps her to the couch. At that time, her nightgown reveals her bulging belly and he knows that Anakin is the father and that is why he says he's sorry.
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usetheforce19
MasterMonkey13
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 6:35 AM
I'm sure I probably sound dumb but, what is LOE?
May the Force be with us all! God bless!
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MomOf2YoungPadawan
Mamadala's Lair
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 6:43 AM
oooopppss...." Labyrinth".....spelled it wrong....
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rj_peters
Memos from the Imperial Finance Department
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 7:18 AM
In the book Jedi Trial, Anakin talks with another Jedi who is secretly married. They both seem to end up thinking that their fellow Jedi know, but just don't say anything about it. I suspect the same thing applies to Padme's pregnancy. There's an interesting tension between the espoused Jedi principles and the reality of how they're followed. The Jedi certainly understood that their vow of celibacy would be broken, at least by some.
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srodgers
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 10:27 AM
Nothing that happened while Obi and Padme were talking clearly gave away the fact that she was carring a baby.
You could see she was pregnant on the screen during the scene, Obi-Wan was closer, how could he have not known? I doubt he suspected her of being an over eater, especially since she did not look chubby in the cheeks.
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starwarsfreak835
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 10:28 AM
this is a great blog srry to repeat what everyone else has already said
but any way i agree that Obi knew about their feelings since episode 2 and I also think that Yoda has known since the end of episode 2 and then its obvious that Yoda would have told Mace but I don't think they would have told the rest of the council.
As for the pregnancy I really think that it was pretty easy to tell she was pregnant for the whole movie espescialy whenever she sits down but that's me. I agree with the fact that I don't think obi knew about it till he went to talk to her about Anakin. But again that's just me.
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miniforcex
The Star Wars Fan Wears Pink
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 1:28 PM
I think Obi had suspected it for a while, but Padme had hid it for a long time. But when he caught her in her apartment (she was in her own privacy, where she wears whatever she wants...) I think he got a good look at her and decided since she was VERY unhappy, Anakin was probably the father of the baby that she was carrying (or babies...) My conclusion is that he suspected it, but when he saw her not covering it up, he knew.
MTFBWU MINIFORCE
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Lea & Carl
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 2:12 PM
1, Even Anakin did not know that Padme was pregnant up until she told him. And that was only a couple a days before he turned to the Dark Side.
2, Padme was carrying twins, and clothes can only hide that much. As Miniforcex just pointed it out she was in the safety of her apartment wearing less of a form hiding dress.
Obi-Wan knew that Anakin and Padme had an emotional bond since childhood, as he said in Attack of the Clones deleted scene. I think as a Jedi he would never even think that Anakin would actually "pursue" the relationship further than a childhood "bond".
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Darth Gehena
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 5:00 PM
I'm very curious. Does anyone realize that those strong with the Force have a powerful sense of intuition? "Anakin is the father, isn't he?" What about in Ep. 5, when Vader took one quick GLIMPSE of the data from Hoth. "That's it! The rebels are there!" he said with 100% conviction and certainty. And what about in Ep. 6 when Luke said, "Leia! Leia is my sister!"
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Darth Gehena
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 5:01 PM
While we're at it, isn't it a little too convenient in Ep. 3, when Palpatine mentioned to Anakin that Darth Plageus "could even keep the ones he cared about from dying"? In that instance, we're left to assume that Anakin declared his intention to save people from death only to Padme on Tatooine in Ep. 2. So only Palpatine/Darth Sidous's intuition would've let him know that Anakin wanted that knowledge.
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Darth Gehena
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 5:05 PM
Actually, those strong with the Force have a sixth sense of sorts that seems to combine intuition (one might call it simply "knowing") with partial abilities in mind reading. Since we know that those strong with the Force can read minds to an extent, I should really say that this is what Palpatine demonstrated in Ep. 3: mind-reading. I'm convinced that he read Anakin's mind, so as to drop Darth Plagueis ability to stop death, as well as to offer his own knowledge to save Anakin's wife from certain death.
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Darth Gehena
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date Posted: Jul 18, 2006 5:09 PM
So based on that (and let's not forget how Vader READ LUKE'S MIND in Ep. 6 to discover the existence of Luke's twin sister!), it is possible that Obi-wan probably read Padme's mind! The pregnancy was obvious enough. But Anakin being the father could've easily been devined either from intuition, mind-reading, and the simple common sense of knowing their childhood bond.
Besides, did anyone notice in Ep. 1 how both Obi-wan and Qui-gon knew of Queen Amidala's true identity of Padme? Without any real proof, I'm sure they're intuition led both of them to know who Padme/Queen Amidala really was. After all, when she revealed her true identity on Naboo, both Jedi were the only ones not surprised.
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usetheforce19
MasterMonkey13
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date Posted: Jul 19, 2006 8:01 AM
True, Darth Gehena, but even Vader sensed not Luke in Episode IV.
May the Force be with us all! God bless!
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Lea & Carl
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date Posted: Jul 19, 2006 8:31 AM
In that instance, we're left to assume that Anakin declared his intention to save people from death only to Padme on Tatooine in Ep. 2.
I though about that also, how Palpatine knew just what power Anakin wanted. I think Palpatine knew long before the opera scene. Since we know that Anakin told Palpatine about his mother and the Sand People. About how he revenged his mother's death, and maybe he even told Palpatine that he felt that he was not strong enough to save her. As a powerful Sith Lord he could easily figure out just what to offer to lure Anakin to the Dark Side: the Ultimate power, Power over Death.
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Darth Gehena
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date Posted: Jul 19, 2006 11:34 PM
usetheforce19, I think Vader deserves a little slack! It wasn't until after Bespin in Ep. 5 that Vader and Luke established their strong connection through the Force. Afterwards, they could feel each other's presence several cruisers apart! Besides, at least Vader felt Luke's strength in the Force above the first Death Star. Until then, there wasn't anything for Vader to sense!
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usetheforce19
MasterMonkey13
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date Posted: Jul 21, 2006 5:34 AM
Thanks for the comments everybody.
May the Force be with us all! God bless!
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AMcho
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date Posted: Jul 21, 2006 10:48 AM
This turned out to be the most interesting blog. I've read every comment given, and enjoyed all of them.
I have to say that I agree with you all that ObiWan must have known something for quite some time. I have to wonder, though, why would some Jedi just accept in silence, something was going on that was against the rules,.... especially ObiWan, who really seemed to like the rules. I know that he loved Anakin like a brother. I think that he adored Padme, too. So I also have to agree with those that believe that ObiWan thought that it was just a childhood infatuation that they had for each other,.... an affection. (cont)
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AMcho
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date Posted: Jul 21, 2006 10:49 AM
(cont.)
Now, however (because of this blog), I just have to read the novelization of these stories. The information that extends on the premise of the movies seems to give much more insight into the minds of the characters that we see on the screen.
I LOVE THIS BLOG!!!
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usetheforce19
MasterMonkey13
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date Posted: Jul 21, 2006 12:49 PM
This turned out to be the most interesting blog.
Thanks. Now I too must read the novelizations.
May the Force be with us all! God bless!
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