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Infinite Galaxy Of Fun - (Retired Archive)
date posted: Dec 05, 2005 6:20 AM  |  updated: Feb 02, 2006 2:51 PM
The Rise And Fall Of Palpatine Part II: The Dark Arts Of Darth Plagueis
When we last left off, a little light was shed on the beginnings of Palpatine and the earliest formation of his grand scheme to conquer the galaxy and destroy the Jedi. He realized that a path of political power was the key to rise: only by combining that power with the Dark Side could he hope to succeed. Much like the tyrants of old, he would be legitimately elected, and then with the power foolishly given up to him would he be able to reveal his true Sith nature.

But his decades-long plan could not come to a head just yet. Until Palpatine removed his master, his dreams of power were but delusions of grandeur. As is the way of the Sith, Palpatine had to strike down Plagueis and become the Sith Lord himself. Like all Sith apprentices before him, he waited until his power increased and his master's power waned; then the moment of truth would be realized.

Yet, this begs the question: who exactly was Darth Plagueis, and what can we derive from what little information exists?

There actually is much we can learn about Plagueis, more than most fans realize. First, let me present Palpatine's tale to Anakin, word for word:

Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? No? I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life.... He had such a knowledge of the dark side he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.

He became so powerful the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. How ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.


Just from this tale we can infer much. Firstly, Palpatine lied in his seduction of Anakin. This is no "Sith legend". It is the true account of Palpatine and his Master. It also teaches us much about the nature of the Force, as Luke Skywalker himself once spoke. No ability is inherently evil, it is the use to which it is put that is evil. Plagueis indeed had the ability to extend and create life, an ability seemingly closer in line with the light side. Yet, this was not a true immortality, it was a technique closer to the artificial, an unnatural prolonging of life, much like the abilities of the One Ring in The Lord of the Rings. Life could be extended, yet in an accursed, unnatural way. Plagueis' name itself can even support this, for a "plague" can suggest this artificial technique: life through the Dark Side.

One can only wonder what the physical appearance of Plagueis was: perhaps the pale and sickly look of one who has drawn too much on Dark Side power, which many Sith masters have exhibited. The prolonging of life must have required a constant draw on Dark Side energy, so great a draw that this could have been Plagueis' undoing: he had to draw so greatly and constantly on this power, that he eventually lost it. The Dark Side is quicker, easier, but not always right. This technique was flawed and not the true path to immortality.

Qui-Gon Jinn, of whom we will speak of in much greater detail in further installments, learned the true secret of immortality: not through greed for life, but through compassion. Only then is immortality through the Force possible. Plagueis' technique was goof for only so long, a quicker and inevitably temporary power.

Palpatine lied about another thing as well: he did not have Plagueis' ability to create life. One wonders why he did not try and learn this ability before he killed his Master. Perhaps when he lost his power he could not teach it. Perhaps it was an ability that could not be learned through teachings, but had to be achieved by the individual. Whatever the case may be, it seems that Palpatine at least learned a method to perpetuate himself and keep him strong. At his death he was approaching 90, and his powers were still great. It can be surmised that a sheer Dark Side willpower combined with at least some semblance of this technique enabled Palpatine to remain. Some have speculated that Palpatine used cloning to keep and endless string of bodies and transfer his mind to them through the Dark Side, but this apparently is discounted. That pre-prequel EU notion doesn't really fit into the modern view of Palpatine and it conflicts with the nature of his post-ROTS Dark Side appearance.

Perhaps the most controversial, debatable, and intriguing aspect of this period is the theory of the creation of Anakin by Plagueis. This has been hinted at and outright stated in several current EU sources, including The New Essential Chronology, Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, and Darth Vader: The Ultimate Guide. This would fit in line quite well, as Anakin was born nine years before TPM roughly in the year 41 BBY (Before The Battle of Yavin). Since Palpatine was elected Senator in 52 BBY, this would mean that Plagueis was still alive when Palpatine was beginning his rise to power.

It has been written that Plagueis, much like Palpatine after him, sensed the time had come for him to take a new apprentice and replace Sidious before he grew too powerful or betrayed him. Therefore, Plagueis created Anakin within Shmi through midi-chlorian influence alone, thus falling in line with Qui-Gon's belief that Anakin had been conceived by midi-chlorians. But sometime afterwards, Plagueis lost his power. That was why he had to teach Palpatine everything he knew, though for whatever reason, Palpatine learned everything but could not achieve Plagueis' power over life. Though this was Plagueis' undoing, he knew he could not let the Sith die and had no choice but to impart his knowledge on Palpatine despite the risks.

His power sapped, and the earliest stages of Palpatine's plan in motion, Plagueis was killed in his sleep. And so it was that Darth Sidious became the sole Dark Lord of the Sith. The time was fast approaching for him to shake the galaxy.

But let me briefly touch on one more thing: perhaps Palpatine was unable to fully learn to create life, (though he managed to prolong it) because it was the will of the Force that Plagueis alone learned that ability. Perhaps Qui-Gon was right: The will of the Force caused Plagueis to learn this power and the Force used him as a conduit to manipulate midi-chlorians into creating the Chosen One. Anakin was born by the will of the Force, and the will acted through Plagueis! More on this in future installments.....



Next Time: Part III: Power Of The Dark Side, Power Of Politics

We will backpedal a little, and look at Palpatine's political rise to power and his schemes in the years before TPM, as well as his own search for an apprentice...........

  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 6:58 AM
well there are other clues you can find out about the palpatine and plaguis relationship. in the new star wars chronology it is inferred palpatine realized or at least believed that plaguis was developing the power to create life in order to create a perfect apprentice. once plaguis had that being, who the book alludes to being anakin skywalker, then plaguis would no longer need palpatine. we can then assume that if palpatine wanted to usurp plaguis he had to move quickly.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 7:02 AM
so while he may have told anakin he learned everything plaguis knew the fact was he hadn't. had he waited for that plaguis would have had anakin and plaguis would have eliminated his apprentice. so at best he probably had a rudimentary knowledge of that ability. furthermore, if plaguis planned on replacing palpatine why teach him everything. this incomplete knowledge is furher enforced by EU. in the ROTS book it shows palpatine using his powers to help keep anakin alive. in the chonology we have learned that when palpatine's batch of clones were tampered with he didn't have the ability to fix them. according to the book he went to korriban to ask the spirits of past sith lords to help him save his clones. the spirits denied him.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 7:05 AM
all in all i commend you. this is a very interesting blog. i myself am very interested in writing my own fan fiction of the origins of Darth Plaguis so you perspective is of great personal interest. you seem to have been thinking about this as much as i have been thinking of my story.
  rr690
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 7:14 AM
This is an excellent blog. More should be done to explain Darth Plaguis and his connection to Anakin.
  Darth Chockerious
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 7:39 AM
What about the training of Darth Maul? When did that training take place, and was Palpatine already a Sith Master when that took place? Perhaps Anakin was created by the Force itself, but Palpatine wrongly believe it was Plaguis. Although I still hold out the theory that Palpatine is Anakin's father, even if he doesn't seem to think that in the latest book. Perhaps he had just forgotten a one night stand with Shmi? I think that it would be easier to make the midi chlorian count higher, then to start from scratch.
  Darth Chockerious
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 7:46 AM
Also remember, Palpatine is a LIAR!!!! Perhaps Plaguis was so powerful, perhaps not. (the best lies always have a touch of truth to them.) My theory still is that Palpatine is really Anakin's Father who had used a Sith version of the Mind trick to make Schmi forget the encounter. How strong is the Midi-chlorian count in Palpatine? I think the training of Maul was longer then 9 years, from finding him to training. Plaguis was already dead before Anakin was conceived (unless it was a loooooong pregnacy.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 8:25 AM
according to page 32 of the chronology, darth maul was a side project of palpatine's that plaguis had no knowledge of. his training was sped up when palpatine became convinced that plaguis was actively looking to replace him.
  The Infinite Force
Infinite Galaxy Of Fun - (Retired Archive)
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 8:37 AM
I will be touching more on Anakin's birth in future installments, but it is true that Plagueis, not Palpatine created him. But, as I stated, I believe the will of the Force acted through Plagueis in his creation.

Also, it is true that Palpatine most likely had Plagueis' ability on some level: he kept Anakin alive, and prolonged his own old age. But he never learned the fullest of the ability: to create life itself.

And let me stress once more for those who haven't read the original part: this isn't fanfic, this is all taken from EU sources and is factual. While I expand on it and theorize myself, nothing here is totally made up.
  The Infinite Force
Infinite Galaxy Of Fun - (Retired Archive)
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 8:39 AM
It is true that Plagueis was still alive when Palpatine captured Maul as an infant: after all, if he is 20 years old at rough estimate in TPM and Anakin is 9, and since Plagueis created Anakin, Maul had to have been under Palpatine's wing for several years at the minimum before Plagueis was killed. So while Plagueis plotted to eventually replace Palpatine with Anakin, Palpatine already plotted to become the master by starting on an apprentice of his own. He did this so that Maul's training would be complete enough in time for him to be used in the plots surrounding and during TPM. But I'll stop here, as the Maul situation will be fully addressed in the next few entries. Look for part three Tuesday or at the latest Wednesday.

  Grand Admiral Veers0
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 2:22 PM
I know this is a discussion of Palpy's history and not of Anakin's birth, but I just can't help help myself. The big piece of proof concerning Anakin was created by Plageius or Sidious is EU material; the essential chronology, Dark Lord and the like; but EU also has a history of jumping to wrong conclusions:
Splinter of the Mind's Eye theorized Luke and Leia as a couple *shudders* and Luke fighting Vader before he even knew how to fight! The Return of the Jedi novelisation had Obi-Wan as Owen's brother, Dark Empire had Palpatine owning a clones of himself to stay alive and there are certainly many more.
(cont.)
  Grand Admiral Veers0
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 2:26 PM
(cont.)
Ignoring that, there is what Chokerious said about Maul's training. Sidious would have been training him for well over nine years and there is no way, I repeat: no way that Plagueis would be unaware of a new Sith-in-training. As for Sids creating Anakin, not even an brilliant planner like him could forsee and/or orchestrate all the different events that both brought Anakin to him and then drew him to the Dark Side,
Anyway, interesting entry IF, and I know they will continue so keep at it!
  Frostor
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 4:05 PM
"EU" and "factual" are two different things, if you ask me. And that's just the trouble. This issue is contentious because there are those, such as me, who only take the films seriously. Call me crazy, but when you make a movie series for a general audience, you don't leave out major plot developments like what the Plagueis theory would be. GL is simply not subtle, and the passing vague reference Palps made is not even enough to be called subtle.

Then you have the people who do accept the EU as part of the story, and as long as you state that this is almost entirely EU-supported, that's one thing. But as the last poster pointed out, the EU is full of problems, so how do you resolve it?
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 6:32 PM
well the EU has to be taken seriously at least to an extent. the series is too popular and the galaxy is too big. think about it this way. compare the star wars trilogy to the lord of the rings and hobbit books. the world created in the LOTR and hobbit is huge. everything has a story and everyone has a history. there are cultures and legends and historical events that take place that effect the world forever. that is how star wars is. there is the basic story but there are alot of things that had profound effects on the story and their are things that the story in turn affects. so those stories b4 and after the main story has to be told.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 6:34 PM
you can't fix the inconsistancies in EU. the best thing to do is to read as much as you can and try to figure out which conflicting fits better in the big picture.
  Frostor
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 7:30 PM
Ah, but the difference with LOTR is that it was all the work of Tolkien himself. The most anyone else did was his son editing the posthumously-published works. And I think we can make an exception if the author dies before publishing his entire material, but that's not the case with SW. Lucas is done. And even Tolkien didn't answer every question or every detail about his world, nor did he intend to. He wanted people to look at the far-off vistas and imagine what was beyond rather than being told what there was. Because that takes some of the magic away, doesn't it? I think it's true of SW as well. The EU is too sloppy for me to regard highly. Scrap the entire thing a la a DC/Marvel Comics move and start over, then we'll talk.
  Darth Kevinmhk
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 7:59 PM
1. If the Sith is powerful enough to shadow themselves from ALL
the Jedi, i wont find it that difficult / surprise that a Sith can
shadow himself from other Sith, if need be.

2. Plagueis, in training himself to such a high level, maybe too busy
in meditation to care about what Sidious was doing.

3. During secret training, Sidious could teach Maul sth that wont
draw Plagueis' attention via the dark side... like martial art.
  The Infinite Force
Infinite Galaxy Of Fun - (Retired Archive)
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 8:01 PM
Yes, the EU is muddled and incoherent in years past, but with everything tied together and book production more tightly controlled by Lucas Books since 1999, we can accept the most recent EU as the "final EU" not subject to change. Thus the New Essential Chronology is a great source as it takes into account all of the films. Now that everything is in place, the new EU material coming out doesn't conflict anymore. And as for Plagueis not knowing of Maul,...his powers were diminishing, and hard to see the dark side is....
  Darth Kevinmhk
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 8:02 PM
Splinter of the Mind's Eye theorized Luke and Leia as a couple

Leia kissed Luke on Hoth.


Don't throw me EU that published BEFORE Prequels.
Did ANYONE, ANYONE - including LUCAS, thought about Chosen One,
midi-chlorians, Dooku, Sifo-Dyas, Tyranus, Sidious, Rule of Two,
Prophecy, Jango Fett, Jedi Council, Gunray, Qui-Gon Jinn that time????
ANYONE?

NO!

How dare you blame those work?
  The Infinite Force
Infinite Galaxy Of Fun - (Retired Archive)
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 8:09 PM
Exactly. The quality of EU continuity since 1999 has increased tenfold. That's why I'm able to draw on all this stuff. I'll be ending this series with the Emperor's death in ROTJ, as the whole plot where he was reborn afterward is lacking continuity completely, as is most 1990s EU. But the prequel era EU is well organized, just look at the Clone Wars.

I know this is a discussion of Palpy's history and not of Anakin's birth, but I just can't help help myself.

I know, it's a good topic. But wait till we get to TPM, then I'll have much more on it.
  Frostor
date Posted: Dec 05, 2005 9:35 PM
Well I'm sorry, but as evidenced by the Plagueis theory alone, the differing accounts between LOE and the Clone Wars cartoon, the whole Ki-Adi Mundi was a knight while on the council thing, etc. the new EU is far from flawless and continuity errors. That is, when it isn't being boring as heck. Unless I get the official word that all EU prior to the PT era is invalid, and then new works are the real deal, I will continue to lump it together. Reset it or get rid of it is how I feel.

Btw, though I often am negative towards the EU, I mean no disrespect to the writers. Their greatest flaw as far as I can tell is that some are just too focused on sci-fi. My problem is the people who come up with the plot ideas in the first place.
  Darth Chockerious
date Posted: Dec 06, 2005 8:16 AM
I still don't buy the fact that any Sith could create life. Perhaps Schmi was pregnate, and one of the Sith increase the Midi-cholian count in this child. the process was so tramatic that Schmi forgot what had happened. Where was Anakin born?
  The Infinite Force
Infinite Galaxy Of Fun - (Retired Archive)
date Posted: Dec 06, 2005 11:24 AM
This is why I believe that the will of the Force enabled Plagueis only with this power in order to create the Chosen One.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 06, 2005 2:42 PM
well that is a typically jedi way to look at things. jedi believe in the will of the force. a sith might say that plagueis WILLED the force to create anakin and it is merely the desperate hopes of the soon to be destroyed jedi order that gave anakin the mantle of chosen one.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 06, 2005 2:42 PM
well that is a typically jedi way to look at things. jedi believe in the will of the force. a sith might say that plagueis WILLED the force to create anakin and it is merely the desperate hopes of the soon to be destroyed jedi order that gave anakin the mantle of chosen one.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 06, 2005 2:45 PM
####### it why did it post twice. anywayz, i am not trying to be sarcasic or insulting when i said "well that is a typically jedi way to look at things". it's just that for all your knowledge and interest in palpatine's rise to power you are looking at it from the point of view of a jedi.
  Lord Zeltrec
date Posted: Dec 06, 2005 3:33 PM
Can someone nice make a blog about this question please and try to do it tonight please!?:|

Why is it that count dooku is so engertic if he is 80 years old! He does a double flip in the beginning of ROTS and 3 years before he was battling yoda like crazy, but obi-wan can barely move his arms in ANH and hes 50? Whats up with that is yoda wrong?And please dont say stuff like special effects were not good enough, and they didnt have enough money, im talking star wars not special effects!!
"Yoda is the dark side stronger?"
"No,easier it is."

Please make a blog peoples!:D
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 06, 2005 4:20 PM
become a hyperspace member and post it yourself.
  Darth Kevinmhk
date Posted: Dec 06, 2005 6:08 PM
1. LoE and Clone Wars cartoon can fit together,
even theforce.net's fans was able to combine both
project and write a walkthrough of the Battle of Coruscant.

2. Why cant Ki on the Council but not a Master? Only
Anakin thought thatwise

3. And remember, as the Will of the Force become more and
more active, it is possible the will of the Force used Plagueis
as its "hands" to create the Chosen One. Thus not Plagueis
did not trained himself to such a high level, but the Force
grant him the skill, and thus why Plagueis could possibly
save anyone from death but not himself: his skill was for
creating Chosen One only.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 07, 2005 5:10 AM
like i said b4.......what a typically jedi way of looking at things.
  The Infinite Force
Infinite Galaxy Of Fun - (Retired Archive)
date Posted: Dec 07, 2005 7:05 AM
Actually, it isn't. The Will of the Force is not an inherently light-sided concept, it is a universal concept, just as the prophecy is.

And this isn't an opinion piece, about who is better, Jedi versus Sith. I clearly understand more about the nature of the Sith than many people do. I'm not looking at this from a Jedi or Sith perspective, but from a neutral one. This is examining fact alone and drawing conclusions. Plagueis learned his power to create life, yes. But I say perhaps the will of the Force enabled him to have this power.

  The Infinite Force
Infinite Galaxy Of Fun - (Retired Archive)
date Posted: Dec 07, 2005 7:05 AM
The prophecy and the Chosen One are FACT. But the way balance was brought to the Force no one could have seen. The Force balanced itself through a Sith creating the Chosen One who then destroyed the Jedi who in turn destroyed the Sith, to start fresh on all levels of the Force. The Force is universal, not just Jedi.

Look for Part III to be posted tonight.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 07, 2005 8:45 AM
no. ur misinterpreting what i meant. when you talk about the will of the force you are inherently referring to something that is the point of view of a jedi. the basic belief of a true sith is that the force is a tool. to the sith the force has no will other than the will of the being using it. they believe that the jedi "leaving it to the will of the force" is the equivilant of doing nothing and hoping for the best.
  Darth Kevinmhk
date Posted: Dec 07, 2005 6:38 PM
The Will of the Force applies to everything and everyone.
No matter what Jedi / Sith believe.

Sith believe Force is a tool : wrong,
otherwise Maul Tyranus Vader Sidious could all prevent their own death.

I post comment again and again supporting that fate/destiny exist
in Star Wars Universe. And fate cannot be altered, regardless you are
a Jedi or a Sith. and in the terms of the Force, fate/destiny = Will of the Force.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 08, 2005 6:23 AM
Sith believe Force is a tool : wrong,
otherwise Maul Tyranus Vader Sidious could all prevent their own death


wrong in a couple ways. all jedi and sith do not have equal abilities in different areas as other sith/jedi. and sidious did prevent his death somewhat. you just have to believe in EU which some people believe and some don't care much for.

The Will of the Force applies to everything and everyone.
No matter what Jedi / Sith believe.


wrong. you may believe in god's overreaching power but to an atheist god doesn't exsist. to insist that he still affects the atheist would be view of a believer in god and not necissarily correct.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 08, 2005 6:26 AM
I post comment again and again supporting that fate/destiny exist
in Star Wars Universe. And fate cannot be altered, regardless you are
a Jedi or a Sith. and in the terms of the Force, fate/destiny = Will of the Force.


and whether you believe it fits everything is meaningless. a sith would read these quote and give you the finger. just because you believe in something it doesn't mean it's true in every circumstance.
  Darth Kevinmhk
date Posted: Dec 08, 2005 7:00 PM
If destiny was not set, if fate can be altered.
Then why would the following vision fullfilled?

Marriage (EP1 Novel + Labyrinth of Evil)
Shmi's death (EP2)
Dooku's death (EP3 Novel)
Padme (EP3)
Han etc suffer (EP5)
Luke went to Vader and together went to Sidious (EP6)
Sith (Prophecy fullfilled)

Every single Force Vision / Prophecy was fullfilled in Star Wars.
A Future has to be set before you can read it in the past.

Only Terminator series would introduce the foolish setting
that future event can be delayed but not avoid.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 08, 2005 9:00 PM
i should have made myself more clear. fate and destiny doesn't equal the will of the force. and while some of the prophecies or visions you mentioned came true but you have to keep in mind some things. anakin envisioned padme dying at childbirth and did what he could to prevent it. but in his attempt to change the future he caused the vision to come true. had he done nothing the vision wouldn't have come true. so you could ask yourself did the prophecy come true because it was fate or did it come true because anakin acted. while i grant that that might not be the best example the point is that there is still some gray area there. it isn't black and white. interpretation of something as intangible as fate, destiny and prophecy isn't easy.
  DarthAdam7448
date Posted: Dec 08, 2005 9:08 PM
a better example of what i am trying to say are the prophecies in the book of revelations and by the prophet nostradomus. whenever a global event of incredible significance occurs many people look at their bibles or the prophecies of nostradamus. they sift through pages of that stuff for hours and the prose is downright confusing. often times they take poetic license and make weird metaphors fit the event and say ha!!!!!!! this thing said that this event would happen. we just didn't look at it in the correct way. hindsight is 20/20 especially when you're trying to prove a prophecy correct. and the will of the force is just nonsense.
  Darth Kevinmhk
date Posted: Dec 09, 2005 7:06 PM
Anakin could not "Not go to save Padme" - i.e. One way or another
Padme has to die....

I am completely against "Always in motion, the future is." concept.
(Ya i am against the Grand Jedi Master :D )

In the Star Wars Universe, I support TOTAL & COMPLETE control
of person & event in fate/destiny. Anakin dont have a chance to
"not go to save Padme", he is destined to choke her.

The Chosen One Prophecy is claimed by George Lucas himself
that it is fullfilled. Unlike in the real world that people try to find
a existing prophecy text and put them into something that just happened.
"Chosen One Prophecy = Real + Valid Prophecy" is a fact in Star Wars!
  Darth Kevinmhk
date Posted: Dec 09, 2005 7:08 PM
From my point of view, as pawns of fate/destiny, Jedi & Sith
could never (at least not yet) realize every action is set,
every event, every turn, every person's fate is all set.

Because as far as i see, ALL Force Vision / Prophecy
in Movies are fullfilled and none could be altered / prevent.
  Peter Fett-Secura
date Posted: May 08, 2006 8:46 AM
I haven't read all the comments, and I'm probobly too late, but before I believed that it was the will of the force purely for the reason a person can't force the force(no pun intended) to do something. But Plaguous may used by the force (The force using greediness of plaguous) to give him power to create life of anakin, to restore balance. By taking away the greedy intake of the sith, used by, and in the wrong way, and purpose.
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