Star Wars: Blogs | The Great Mystery | "The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis, The Wise"

The Great Mystery

by: MasterMoonlighter

date posted: Jul 25, 2005 7:42 AM | updated: Aug 17, 2005 8:55 PM

"The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis, The Wise"

"He had such a Knowledge of the Dark side that he could manipulate the Midichlorians to create.....Life" I do not think it is a stretch to say that Darth Sidious' Master, (we all know he was the apprentice that killed him in his sleep), influenced the midi-chlorians to conceive Anakin. That is how Anakin came to be. Plagueis is Anakin's Godfather. Darth Plagueis never told his apprentice, Sidious, whom he created using the midi-chlorians, and so Sidious was hell-bent on finding out just who, because he realized that he would be The Chosen One, the most powerful being in the universe. Sidious made it seem to Anakin that Plagueis apprentice was more interested in learning how to keep people from dying. In reality he was interested in finding out whom Plagueis created using the Force. Palpatine was simply using logic, (if you could create life, surely you could prolong it) to influence Anakin, knowing all about Anakin's fear of losing Padme (WITH ME SO FAR?) Darth Plagueis tragedy was telling his apprentice what he had done. Darth Sidious found out about Shmi and so knew what he needed to know, and since Darth Plagueis was not about to teach him more, He murdered him in his sleep. (don't you just love how, when Palpatine is telliing Anakin how Plagueis die, you can just see that he is reliving the moment, and enjoying it.)

And so Palpatine watched Tatooine, seeing that the Jedi would discover Anakin, and so setting in motion his long laid plans. Anyone disagree? Any other theories? As Qui Gonn has said. "He is the Chosen one, He will bring Balance" chosen by the Dark Side to bring about the Revenge of the Sith, Chosen by the Jedi to destroy the Sith. In the end he Chose to destroy Emperor Palpatine, destroying the Sith, bringing balance back to the Force, facilitating the Return of the Jedi!!

http://blogs.starwars.com/lafuerza/7

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	JediJRC08 For all of you Palpatine Fans!
date Posted: Jul 25, 2005 7:53 AM i already started this blog....

	MasterMoonlighter The Great Mystery
date Posted: Jul 25, 2005 8:09 AM I was attempting to provide an answer in my own blog. I will disable the comments however.....

	MasterMoonlighter The Great Mystery
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 1:44 PM Post Post Post your comments if you wish!!

	JediShemL Anakin Skywalker's Conception
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 2:11 PM Darth Plagueis died about 15 years before the birth of Anakin. How you wonder? Sidious kills Plagueis, takes on Darth Maul. How much older is Maul than Anakin? If Maul is about 25 years old in TPM, and Anakin is 9-10 years old, that would mean Plagueis died around 15 years before the birth of Anakin.

	Catal Al-Undar Building the Used Future...
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 2:12 PM yes yes.... i like that idea... it opens the door for another prequel... Episode 0: The Shadow Falls.... Hmmm...someone get Lucasfilm Ltd. on the phone...

mesphisto

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 2:34 PM

yes this theory is very interesting and i don't think it seems like a strectch since palpatine had a plan of ruling a thousand year empire, which means he would know how to prolong life though he did have a secret planet where his scientists were creating clones of himself so that when a body became too decayed from the dark side, which is the consequence of the sith, then he could transport his soul into the new body.

mesphisto

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 2:34 PM

also in episode III, in the chancellor's chambers after defeating mace windu, he tells anakin that only together they "would have the strength to find the secret to eternal life," which suggests that he is not the apprentice of darth plagueis, but knows of the legend of plagueis and is proud of the sith's evil that the apprentice will eventually kill the master. this is a great topic and i'd love to find out the truth behind darth plagueis and who was the master of darth sidious.

	jedihooplah A whole bunch of hooplah.
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 2:35 PM All good and well for speculation. But I'm pretty sure that some where along the line Lucas said that there was no father. The Force imaculatly (spelling) concived Anakin. Thats what I've been told.

mesphisto

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 2:48 PM

Who really is darth sidious' master in the star wars saga? a question that would be wonderful to see answered in the movies, but i really hope there will be a novel about it. i thought palpatine learned the dark arts when, as a student, he travelled to the ancient sith world of korriban and came into contact with ancient sith spirits that occupied the desolate world. this is what i thought was the source of palpatine's evil, and also that he was injecting midi-chlorians into himself to make himself powerful, especially if he was born on naboo then at a young age the republic would have tested him for force sensitivity.

Darth Rex0
So be it....

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 2:51 PM

I love the theory, but I would take heed in putting any truth to a Sith's comments. EVERYTHING they say is to increase thier own power. Palpatine's story maybe true, but he only told it so Anakin would start to turn. When Anakin turns, Palpatine tells him that it will take time. Of course he tells him that. That way he always has a leash and a way to control Anakin. When Padme dies, Palpatine again lies to him about Padme's death, again to Palpy's advantage; an angry Vader is better than a sad one. Good topic and who cares by the way if there is another blog with this topic, most of these blogs are repeat topics, but MasterMoonlighter put it into words the best I think.

	MasterMoonlighter The Great Mystery
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 2:54 PM Darth Plagueis was Palpatine's Master, When the DVD comes out in november, see again how Palpatine bitterly tells how Plagueis refused to tell his apprentice his secrets and how Palpatine relishes in telling how Plagueis died. "Ironic isn't it. He had power to save people from death, but he could not save himself."

	MasterMoonlighter The Great Mystery
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 2:57 PM I would like to point out, for those who perhaps have overlooked, that Palpatine never says, Plagueis' Apprentice(Palpatine himself) learned how to keep people from dying. He made it clear that Plagueis was jealous and secretive with his powers.

Jedi Master Ludif

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 3:52 PM

I really like the stuff you got on the blog, but one thing remains could Plagueis know th way to "come back from the dead" just like Qui-Gon, Obi-wan and Yoda? This is maybe the way he could cheat dead and Palaptine was aware of it, maybe Plagueis decided not to teach the technique to Palpatine and perhaps he feed more envy for his master after knowing the Plagueis plan.

	MasterMoonlighter The Great Mystery
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 3:54 PM I like the way you are thinking Ludif, but I believe Plagueis only knew how to STOP people from dying, not achieve immortality and Identity in the Force. Read Matt Stover's "Revenge of the Sith" it's all there.

Palpatine 42

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 4:26 PM

Yeah, I think I have to agree with you on your theory except for one part. Obviously Anakin was the chosen one but I believe he was only chosen by the light side of the force to bring balance to it. I don't think he had the choice, at least not by the end of "Return of the Jedi". The only thing he could do to bring balance was to kill Palpatine thus weakening the Empire and weakening th dark side so it was just as strong as the light.

	Palpatine 42
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 4:30 PM By "I have to agree with you" I ment I agree with Master Moonlighter. I just realized that could get confusing.

	Anakin8800
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 4:41 PM For those of you that are still a little questionable on whether Plagueis was truely Palpatine's master, I can validate that in the book Labrynth of Evil (Prequel book of Ep. III) it does make a comment that not much is known about Sidioius besides that his master was in fact Plagueis.

JediShemL
Anakin Skywalker's Conception

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 4:43 PM

"It was a virgin birth in an ecosystem of symbiotic relationships. It means that between the Force, which is sort of a life force, and reality, the connectors between these two things are what we call Midi-chlorians. They're kind of based on mitochondria, which are a completely different animal, that live inside every single cell and allow it to live, allow it to reproduce, allow life to exist...

Continue...

JediShemL
Anakin Skywalker's Conception

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 4:43 PM

Continued...

..."They also, in their own way, communicate with the Force itself. The more you have, the more your cells are able to speak intuitively to the Force itself and use the powers of the Force. Ultimately, I would say the Force itself created Anakin. I don't want to get into specific terms of labeling things to make it one religion or another, but basically that's one of the foundations of the hero's journey."
--George Lucas, February 2005 issue of Vanity Fair, page 117

JediShemL
Anakin Skywalker's Conception

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 4:45 PM

Continued...

...They also, in their own way, communicate with the Force itself. The more you have, the more your cells are able to speak intuitively to the Force itself and use the powers of the Force. Ultimately, I would say the Force itself created Anakin. I don't want to get into specific terms of labeling things to make it one religion or another, but basically that's one of the foundations of the hero's journey."
--George Lucas, February 2005 issue of Vanity Fair, page 117

	Turlock Andrew
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 4:58 PM Plauges did not create Anakin, come on think ,that was just a story to make anakin turn bad

	EthnVaderPhaser
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 4:59 PM I would agree on all points... except him knowing that Anakin was on Tatooine. My guess is he found out with the rest of the us in the Phantom Menace.

DarthElFreako
Absolutely dealing with the Sith

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 5:07 PM

Master Moonlighter,

I must that what you said hit it right on the money. The answer was always there, nothing more nothing less. Sometimes in life we look for answers to be complex as it seems in life, but as we usally find that the answer is all to simple and obvious
. You have great wisdom my friend, and wisdom is the beinging of logic. Logic is the key to knowledge. Knowlegde is power. May the force be with you.

	napalm229 Republic Enemy: thoughts on the CIS
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 6:36 PM I agree. While I very much appreciate thinking outside of the box....the simple fact is that Palpatine was a very convincing liar. The story was partially true and partially untrue. In other words, spin. This was not an idea I had heard of before though, so props to you for the idea.

	Livingston777
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 7:07 PM I myself, thought this was obvious. For those who point to Lucas saying the force made Anakin, which is true, it still doesn't clash with the theory above. Lucas never said that the Force simply decided to make Anakin. Just because a Force user manipulated the Force to do something, which is what Sith do, doesn't mean that the Force didn't do it.

Livingston777

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 7:07 PM

If Frank gives a suggestion to Bob to shoot Sally and he does, Bob is still the one who shot Sally. We have no idea of the process that begot Anakin and thus we have no way of knowing how much or how little Plagueis could have influenced the creation of Anakin. He could have simply done certain things with the Force that would set the ball into motion to cause the Force to create Anakin.

Livingston777

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 7:08 PM

Livingston777

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 7:10 PM

Perhaps Plagueis created such a strong spike of Darkness in the Force that the Force itself had to create a child of light in order to balance it out. Anakin was very good natured to begin with, for example wanting to always help locals with their problems and immediately helping Qui-gon and crew when they were in need, as well as wanting to free all the slaves. His intentions were originally good and selfless. It wasn't until the Jedi came and ripped him away from his mother and gave him a God complex by always saying how special he was and that he was "The Chosen One," that his head became to big for his shoulders and he grew to be easily swayed by the dark side.

Livingston777

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 7:15 PM

So if you think about it, Anakin was a good person, and the Jedi were actually more responsible for the corruption of Anakin, than even Sidious was.

Yoda knew well enough that it was a bad decision to train Anakin in the first place, but he wavered on the grounds that Obi-wan was fulfilling Qui-gon's last wish. As such, if he was going to cave anyway, he should have taken on Anakin as his own apprentice, that way he could make absolutely sure Anakin was being given the correct training, considering the council considered Obi-wans master to be a rogue in any case. It is the Jedi way to let a Jedi learn through his own mistakes, but not when the cost is so high...

Livingston777

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 7:21 PM

Also for the one who pointed out the age differences with Maul and Anakin, as proof that Plagueis died 15 years before the birth of Anakin, that doesn't really hold water.

First of all, Lucas does not consider the books to be his cannon. As such we have no idea how old Maul is or how long Maul trained under Sidious, as the movies never give these times.

Also there is nothing to say that Sidious wasn't training Maul in secret while Plagueis was still alive....

JediShemL
Anakin Skywalker's Conception

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 8:21 PM

"After Darth Sidious' first apprentice is killed, he has to come up with a new apprentice, and rather than coming up with some baby that he trains from birth, which is what he should have done--well, he shouldn't have gotten himself in a position of getting his apprentice killed anyways--he's decided to make his move, so he needs somebody that was already trained. The point is to set up that he turned this one Jedi, so that he could turn another Jedi. It has to be set up that way."
--George Lucas, AOTC Commentary

	JediShemL Anakin Skywalker's Conception
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 8:22 PM That quote I just posted proves that Lucas meant for Maul to be trained from birth. Plagueis was long dead before the birth of Anakin.

	TK-8252
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 8:32 PM I don't understand why we need blogs like these. It's simple. The Chosen One is created by the will of the living Force. The Chosen One will destroy the Sith. Just as Anakin does. Anakin = Chosen One This is what George Lucas has said. So stop making these incorrect theories.

	Darth Youfan
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 8:36 PM Mmmmmm... I think Darth Sidious said 'this is story of the long time ago'... It means LONG TIME... Before Anakin born, isn't?

DarthCesarin

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 8:40 PM

So Plagueis creates Anakin, and makes sure that Anakin is born in a remote location where he can't be found by the Jedi (without being found at birth Anakin can develop emotions of attachment and fear, that will lead him to the dark side). Plagueis has all ready foreseen the fact that Anakin will be found by the Jedi and delivered to the Temple for Jedi Training. As Qui-Gon says in The Phantom Menace "Our meeting was not a coincidence, nothing happens by chance". Sidious obviously "fearing" the fact that his powerful master had created an extremely powerful human being, knew that by the time Anakin was old enough to become a Sith, he would replace him, and kill him. So he did what he had to do....

	darth bong 5000
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 8:50 PM I would speculate even further and say that Sidious had learned the power to cheat death, and was hiding the knowledge to cement Anakin turning to the darkside. How else would vader have survived after he was disfigured by Obi Wan

Livingston777

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 9:31 PM

JediShemL: After Darth Sidious' first apprentice is killed, he has to come up with a new apprentice, and rather than coming up with some baby that he trains from birth, which is what he should have done--

That in itself does not say that Maul was trained since being a babe. It simply says that he should have chosen his next apprentice in this manner.

And besides that, as I said before, there is no way of knowing how long Sidious could have been training Maul in secret while Plagueis was still alive.

Livingston

	jkthunder Seven Pieces
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 9:55 PM i think palpatine actually said "long before you were born" during that conversation at the galaxy theater. anyway it is really beside the point because we really have little information about time. we only really know that there are about 10 years between TPM and AOTC, and that ANH is probably about 19 years after ROTS.

jkthunder
Seven Pieces

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 9:55 PM

i]and for all we know, whatever kind of lifeform darth maul may be, he could be 2 years old or 200 years old.

but i really think none of this time matching matters. i think plagueis instigated or manipulated the force to create life, and anakins conception didnt happen simultaniously. maybe the conception was in some sort of force suspension. maybe plageuis is so wise he continued the practice after his death (in the immortality zone). all we can do is imagine. but i dont think the time of plagueis death is relavant to when anakin was born.

	TK-8252
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 10:04 PM Wow, apparently no one read my comment. Read it.

General Starkiller
A Star Wars fan never complains

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 10:29 PM

According to Vader: The Ultimate Guide by IDG Entertainment Darth Plagueis created Anakin by influencing those pesky midi-chlorians. This is if "the lore of the Sith Lords is to be believed". It was no more than a paragraph but, to my knowledge, this is the first published confirmation that he was Sith created. This same paragraph concluded by simply stating that it is unclear whether he was created by Plagueis (the text has lead me to believe it was Plagueis especially when coupled with Palpatine's little narrative at the Opera House) or Sidious but he was a Sith creation nonetheless.

	TK-8252
date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 11:01 PM Wrong, that's NOT what it says. "...If the lore of the Sith Lords is to be believed" means that this is what the Sith say. And the Sith are the biggest liars the galaxy have seen. So no, read my comment.

JediShemL
Anakin Skywalker's Conception

date Posted: Jul 26, 2005 11:12 PM

That in itself does not say that Maul was trained since being a babe. It simply says that he should have chosen his next apprentice in this manner.

The matter is in tradition. Lucas is talking about Sith tradition and that is raising your apprentice from birth. Sidious did not have time to do that with Dooku.

The fact that you have to reach that far just to keep a theory alive should tell you something. Any theory that holds water never needs to have major reaches.

	Livingston777
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 12:09 AM Apparently you have a selective reading disorder JediShemL. You only ever answer half of the argument. Once again we don't know how old maul is, or how long Sidious could have been training him without Plagueis knowing it.

Livingston777

date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 12:11 AM

TK-8252: No one answered your post because no one thought it worth their time. We have bloggs like these because we bloddy well want to, and you are insane to think that simply because you come onto the board and say we are all wrong, that we are all going to go "*Gasp!* By Zues! He is correct! We must all be quiet and learn more from such a wise being as TK-8252."

Not to mention the hesitancy of most to regard anything said by a person with a serial number for a name.

	Livingston777
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 12:11 AM Part of the fun of Star Wars and any other fantasy setting is to speculate how things really happened when there is room to argue a point. If GL didn't want us speculating, then he would have made sure there were no doubts about it, but there are, and thus we continue to speculate and have thought provoking conversations. The terror of it all!

jedisasso

date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 12:29 AM

umm... i thought palpatine was REALLY OLD. and when palpatine said that this WAS A Sith Legend meaning not 15 years be4 phantom menace like a real while back when the sith were still in business meaning that when he killed plagueis it was a while ago or it was a lie that sith tend to tell even amongest each other that some people dont grasp, in my opinion it was obvious that palpatine was plagueis' apprentice. if i am wrong please correct me

	UGAB_Lowbacca
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 1:23 AM re: mesphisto Darth Sidious the apprentice of Darth Plagueis, it was told in the ROTS novel.

Darthvegeta800000

date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 1:24 AM

I heard the theory alot but personally i'm not so sure.
It would make the 'chosen one' thing a bit less mythical.
Also like was stated above Plagey was probably dead already.
Also why make a farmerboy and keep him there if you made the chosen one or a pupil train him from birth as a Sith.
Palpy himself hadn't planned on using Anakin first.
It sounds a bit too unlikely i think.
But i guess all is possible.

likebebop
JM SW Blog

date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 6:19 AM

RE: Jedi Master Ludif
I really like the stuff you got on the blog, but one thing remains could Plagueis know th way to "come back from the dead" just like Qui-Gon, Obi-wan and Yoda?...

In the Star Wars Tales Volume 1 graphic novel (i might have the title mixed up) where Darth Vader finds another jedi in hiding and fights her, she turns into a force spirit at the end of the battle and tells Vader that because a Jedi can become "One with the Force", the light side is

Continued...

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