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 | Anakin vs. Vader |
 Okay. I halfway promised Amidalooine that I would write this. So here goes.
This stems from comments I made here in response to someone else's comments from Ami's first blog. Got that? Good, there will be a quiz later.
Darth Vader- Before the Suit
At the time Anakin pledged himself to Palpatine, he was not irrevocably Sith. The mark of the Sith (yellow eyes) is not constant until after he is in the suit. During this period of time, two personalities are fighting for dominance of the body- Anakin and Darth Vader. Anakin does not become a Sith because he believes that the Sith are correct and the Jedi are wrong. He joins because he thinks that Palps can help save Padme and because he just helped to kill Mace. This means that his conscience is still fighting itself. Even through all the horrible things that A/DV does next, he is never so far gone that he couldn't come back (see the actions of Kyp in the Jedi Academy Trilogy and Raynar in the Dark Nest Trilogy for examples of worse behavior). A/DV can still make the choice to be Anakin only. In order for this to happen, Anakin needs to be stronger than Darth Vader.
Sidebar- I have always thought that most of Anakin's conscience comes from Padme and Obi-Wan.
And back to the main blog....On Coruscant Obi-Wan is not there to help temper Anakin's actions (obviously because of Palpy's manipulations). Anakin does not let Padme know what is really going on, so she is unable to act as his conscience. This gives Darth Vader more power. On Mustafar, Anakin literally cuts off half his conscience when he force chokes Padme and then does his best to kill the other half. Throughout all of Mustafar, Darth Vader is gaining more power over the mind and body.
The Suit
Back on Coruscant, the fight over the body is still going on. When the helmet comes down, Anakin's eyes are not yellow. And then Palpy strikes. He tells one more lie...that Anakin killed Padme.
Sidebar- While Anakin helped to contribute to the conditions causing Padme's death, he did not kill her outright, which is what I believe Palps meant.
And we are back....Why did Palpy do this?
(The following theory is a paraphrase from Starfighters of Adumar by Aaron Allston. The theory is credited to Luke.)
First, you are told your actions are noble. But then you are surrounded by reminders about the wrongness of your actions. This makes you more aware of your descent to the dark side. Palps "found this knowing acceptance of corruption, this half-accepting, half-struggling process, particularly delicious."
When Anakin pledged himself to Palps, he is told that he is doing the wrong thing. But then Palps reminds Anakin of something that he has done that is wrong. He could have mentioned the death of the Jedi (including the younglings) or the deaths of the Separatist leaders, but didn't because these were "noble" things that had to be done. So instead, he tells Anakin that he killed Padme. And with Padme dead and Anakin responsible, Anakin has no reason to go on living. Darth Vader is free to take over control and Palps gets to revel in the knowledge of Anakin's despair. Both Palps and DV think that Anakin believes he has fallen so far, he can never be redeemed, so he (Anakin) will never try to reemerge. But the three of them don't know about Luke. And when DV finds out about Luke, Anakin starts to stir a little bit. Anakin continues to grow in power until when he sees his son in agony, about to die and then he finally has the power to overthrow DV and take back control. And thus earning his right to come back as a blue glowy guy.
Anakin always had a choice, even if he didn't see it that way.
Are you confused? I know I am, and I wrote it!  Please direct all complaints to Amidalooine, as this was her idea. (Kidding, Ami, kidding. You know I love you!    )
Click here for the quiz.
And yes, I realize the picture is of Obi-Wan and Anakin, but I liked the symbolism of the struggle.
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http://blogs.starwars.com/mh7/3 |

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jkthunder Seven Pieces
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 4:13 PM
Aye corrumba! Look at this nice shiny blog
Anakin literally cuts off half his conscience when he force chokes Padme
Beautifully put, and a great way to look at this. Anakin's "turn" was not so quick as many complain about IMO. It was very subtle and a constant conflict, even deep in the Vader years.
when DV finds out about Luke, Anakin starts to stir a little bit.
Yes! Palpatine's masterful twisting of language had certainly been a strong point in swaying Anakin over as well as building the Empire.
And masterful use of the rodent with breakfast food  Yeah... the end there took a twice over to absorb, but I totally groove with whatchoo say.
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youngjedijake8 Emperor Palpatine's Flying Circus
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 4:43 PM
actually anakins eyes turn yellow right after Nute Gunray so he was a sith before he got the suit.
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Oboe-Wan Oboe-Wan's Hive of Scum & Villainy
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 4:52 PM
Wow! A blog!! Imagine my happiness when I spied this on the blog page.
This is amazing. I love this idea of Padme & Obi being Anakin's conscience. I never thought of it that way, but the next time I watch I will keep that in mind.
younjedijake8 - yeah, his eyes flickered between yellow & normal for quite a bit of time, but he definitely had his normal eyes when the helmet came down. Also note the look of fear & terror on his face as the helmet came down.
Great blog. I wish I was this insightful!!!
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mirax7 The Saga Begins
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 4:59 PM
actually anakins eyes turn yellow right after Nute Gunray so he was a sith before he got the suit.
my point is that he waffles back and forth. yes, his eyes do turn yellow at some points, but at others they are still white. at the time the suit goes on, he is not irrevocably sith.
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Jedi Arwen Skywalker
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 5:11 PM
Oboe-wan is back! YEa!
Nice blog. Anakin should have LISTENED to Padme. He could have turned back then, but he didn't. I think she might have been able to convince him if OBi-wan hadn't appeared.
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youngjedijake8 Emperor Palpatine's Flying Circus
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 5:13 PM
yeah, his eyes flicker between yellow and normal for quite a bit of time
yea but still....uh... well u said his eyes werent yellow yet! so it was a bit unclear for me. and the bunny thing was wierd. it wasnt all that funny but i couldnt look away. it was like one of those WTF things. they should put that on attack of the show
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jediholteh
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 5:29 PM
Anakin does not become a Sith because he believes that the Sith are correct and the Jedi are wrong.
Glad that you made that a point. Although Anakin says, "From my point of view the Jedi are evil!" I think he's just trying to make excuses and be obstinate. It's nice to hear someone voice that.
I really loved how you made it sound like Darth Vader and Anakin are two totally different people fighting for control over the same body. I've always thought that the conflict never stopped, so I agree with ya there, too. And overall, it was such a well-written blog! 
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padmeskywalker77 Padme's Legacy
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 5:35 PM
Great blog!! Not only were Obi-Wan and Padme' Anakin's conscience...they were his "keepers" of sorts. Padme', more so than Obi-Wan, was the guardian of his soul, particularly duing the Dark years he spent as Vader. I'm sure Anakin "flickered" in and out during that time, but Padme' provided the protection required for their son to save him completely from the clutches of the Sith.
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padmeskywalker77 Padme's Legacy
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 5:36 PM
And yes, I realize the picture is of Obi-Wan and Anakin, but I liked the symbolism of the struggle.
It is a very appropriate picture, mirax7, and well-chosen.
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mirax7 The Saga Begins
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 5:42 PM
Nice blog. Anakin should have LISTENED to Padme.
thank you. and yes he should have!!!! of course that would have negated the whole ot, but we won't get into that.
I've always thought that the conflict never stopped, so I agree with ya there, too. And overall, it was such a well-written blog!
the eu, especially dark lord, gets into this some. this also goes back to my other comment you quoted. palps enjoys being mean and making people suffer. vader gets upset for poor performance. his making leia watch the destruction of alderaan wasn't out of meaness, but because he want information from her. and i think he would have done the whole scenerio differently if tarkin wasn't there. and thank you as well.
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mirax7 The Saga Begins
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 5:52 PM
but Padme' provided the protection required for their son to save him completely from the clutches of the Sith.
ohhh, i like that. i was thinking more along the lines of padme's influence stopped when she died, but i like the idea of her "sticking around" to help anakin.
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hansgirl3 Invoking the Squee
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 6:06 PM
Excellent!!
I think you are right that Anakin fought with himself constantly during this time (during ROTS) and Palps took advantage of his struggle. His manipulations of Anakin most decidedly led to his final downfall.
I agree as well with your assessment concerning his constant struggle during the rest of his life. Otherwise, Luke wouldn't have been able to have the effect on him that he did and be able to be the final factor to turn him back (albeit with the influence of the last battle with Obi-wan and the constant memory of Padme).
Great blog! 
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darthtravis10
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 6:33 PM
wow what a well done blog. this is very interesting and no i didnt get confused. the whole thing was beautifully put. i think it interesting that we all see anakin and vader as two different people even though they are the same person. i guess i never thought about anakin "being alive" while vader ruled. as i said before, this was an extremely well done blog.
i like the rabbit with the pancake on its head, very funny
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viagoangel2 Were Anakin and Padme' really one?
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 7:15 PM
This is Amazing!!! *WOW* Nicely done.... The whole conscience thing, mind blowing!
So what shoulder do they sit on, who's the angel and who's the devil? Hahah
Seriously though, I too have always believed that Padme' spirit was vigilant over him throughout his Dark Days as Vader. The way you describe the split personality does make one see things way clearer. Again, Wonderful! VA2
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amidalooine The Emotional Galaxy
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 8:10 PM
EXCELLENT use of the pancake bunny, mirax!!!!!!!
Anakin always had a choice, even if he didn't see it that way.
I totally disagree with this  even though I love and agree with 99.9% of your blog!! I liken it to the part in Dark Lord ***SPOILERS*** where Qui-Gon tells Obi-wan that (dammit, you're making me run upstairs and get the book so I can quote it!), "the Anakin you and I knew is imprisoned by the Dark Side."
Imprisoned. Anakin was imprisoned by an entity that had no intention of allowing him to escape. I don't think that constitutes a choice.
LOVE the blog entry, mirax!!!
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amidalooine The Emotional Galaxy
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 8:11 PM
Like everyone else said, I like the Padme and Obi-wan conscience thing, too.
Which reminds me...I missed a blog entry by viagoangel2, also.....I'm so behind!
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jkthunder Seven Pieces
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 8:19 PM
Padme and Obi Wan are tied to Anakin's consciousness, and in another sense so are Luke and Leia. Leia's "memories" of her mother (okay - touchy subject I know) are what Anakin saw (beautiful and kind) and what Padme felt (sad), and of course Luke knows theres "still good in him" yada yada. So the Chosen One (perhaps) has a special connection through the Force with those who are close to him.
I was thinking of this after reading this blog, that Anakin's "vision" of returning to Tatooine to free the slaves was realized by Luke and Leia in ROTJ (when they go to get Han and destroy Jabba).
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mirax7 The Saga Begins
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 9:00 PM
i guess next time i will have to go for 100% ami.  hehehe, i made you run upstairs
interesting way of putting it. i will have to think on that.
and i do really have to say thanks to jk for originally posting the bunny pancake picture! i was very excited that i was able to use it in my blog.
I was thinking of this after reading this blog, that Anakin's "vision" of returning to Tatooine to free the slaves was realized by Luke and Leia in ROTJ (when they go to get Han and destroy Jabba).
ohhh, i never even thought about that.....
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amidalooine The Emotional Galaxy
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 9:34 PM
Yeah, jk...anakinside1 writes a really nice blog entry!
hehehe, i made you run upstairs
...not only that, but now I have to re-read THIS one (Dark Lord), too! GEEZ!
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jkthunder Seven Pieces
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 9:48 PM
and the bunny thing was wierd. it wasnt all that funny but i couldnt look away. it was like one of those WTF things. they should put that on attack of the show
Sorry you don't get our little joke there dude or dudette. Its one of those things that are so weird they're funny. My explaining it is totally killing the joke... aw forget it. Maybe you'll get it in a few years.
I totally got the meaning behind Anakin's eyes not being yellow at the moment the mask was coming down, even though they were yellow before during the fight. The point is that Anakin was going in and out of the dark for a while, even up to that point. Seems like everyone else got that point.
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jkthunder Seven Pieces
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 9:57 PM
Blazingly obvious to me it was. Anyway...
Speaking of Dark Lord - this totally reminded me of the play on Darth Vaders fear and anger by Sidious, in the book. I have to re-read that again too. I went back to reference trhings in that a ton right after I read it.
But I disagree with the disagreement about Anakin's choices - Geeze, this is a hot topic (and you know I love and respect your views ami)... but "imprisoned" isn't to me so binding here, and is a non-literal metaphor. Anakin still chose Darth Vader, even if DV was the prison. It's a prison he had potential to free himself from. It became harder though, the more choices he made that drew him down the dark path.
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Darth Vader Meditation Chamber
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date Posted: May 19, 2006 1:04 AM
Very interesting way to interpret the struggle.
And thus earning his right to come back as a blue glowy guy.
"His deeds will not be forgiven, until he merits"
So funny that we touch the same subject from different perspective but get so close conclusions isn't it?
Without Luke, the prophecy would have never been fulfilled. Without Luke, Anakin would've lost the battle against Vader for sure. In fact it was already lost 99% by he time of the battle of Yavin, before DV realizes who that kid may be.
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Darth Vader Meditation Chamber
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date Posted: May 19, 2006 1:08 AM
i've always had two complaints about ROTS, one of them is the yellow eyes. Everuthing plays well until the helmet goes down, at that moment I still think that Vader should have yellow eyes. It would be much better and would bring more significance to the end of ROTJ when we see him again without them, because he's good again.
That said, I too understand why the eyes may not be yellow at that point, as soon as he's standing, he asks about Padme, he still cares about her so having Sith eyes and caring would contradict the point.
But it would have looked cooler.
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JediMasterChief 21
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date Posted: May 19, 2006 5:34 AM
Anakin always had a choice, even if he didn't see it that way.
I totally disagree with this
Well i totally agree. This entire blog matches my thoughts exactly but i have also believed Anakin has always had a choice, whether he knew it or not. Just as Padme and Obi-Wan were his conscience, when they were out of his life, he did not have them to help see the choice. He was a prisoner to a monster he created and without seeing anyway out, Anakin was submissive to Vader. He no longer could see a choice.
cont...
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JediMasterChief 21
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date Posted: May 19, 2006 5:35 AM
cont...
He first was an acomplice to the murder of a jedi master, who i believe anakin has had more than contempt for, he then went on a jedi killing spree, and choked his wife. He cannot possibly see how the jedi order would forgive his actions and welcome him back. So he continues to feed himself these lies that the jedi are evil so to make him feel like his actions henceforth are justified. So pretty much what i'm trying to say is that Anakin just thought the choice was gone when he became Vader.
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mirax7 The Saga Begins
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date Posted: May 19, 2006 6:29 AM
So funny that we touch the same subject from different perspective but get so close conclusions isn't it?
are we agreeing again???
Without Luke, the prophecy would have never been fulfilled.
yep. luke may not have been the chosen one, but he was still pretty importante. (and pretty cute.  )
But it would have looked cooler.
if you wish, i will start imagining you always having yellow eyes....
JediMasterChief 21- i whole-heartedly agree with your second post. anakin thought he had done too much bad to be forgiven. he just had to wait twenty years to find someone willing to show him this wasn't the case.
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anigirl3
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date Posted: Jun 30, 2006 2:49 PM
Cute bunny.
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