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Miss Padme's Naboo Love Nest
date posted: Apr 17, 2006 8:24 PM
The damned of the SW Universe
The other day, I thought about the damned among the SW pantheon, the baddies who croak unredeemed and unforgiven.  Interestingly, three get their just desserts in ROTJ.  They were all different shades of evil, wicked for different reasons, but evil just the same.

First, let's look at bounty hunter extraordinaire Boba Fett.  He was bad not just because he was an antagonist and made our heroes' lives difficult.  He was bad because he was greedy to the point where morals were no barrier to what he wanted to accomplish.  In other words, he'd do anything, hurt anyone, and kill anybody for money.  When Han is tortured and frozen in carbonite, Fett's concern for his well-being is measured only in monetary value.  His progenitor Jango is pretty much the same way; he doesn't care who he has to kill nor is he ever concerned about the implications of using his genetic material to spawn a clone army.  All he cares about is getting paid. 

Jabba the Hutt is a creature of the id, a being who lives primarily for self -indulgence thanks to his own greed for money.  He kills in part for enjoyment, watching a poor dancing girl die purely for amusement.  He eats constantly, smokes whatever it is in his hookah, and ogles scantily-clad prisoners all day long.  Every day is a party to Jabba, with life and death as his entertainment.  If Jabba was a victim in that movie Seven, he'd be the guy whacked for gluttony.

Darth Maul and General Grievous live to fight and kill.  They don't question their orders or their own actions; it's all about the enjoyment of watching others die (both have a preference for killing Jedi).  They have no conscience whatsoever.

Count Dooku wins the "it takes one to know one" award when he tells Anakin in ROTS "double the pride, twice the fall."  We don't know the precise reason why Dooku agreed to join the Sith but it can be surmised he's a man of tremendous pride.  As long as nobody else in the galaxy was paying attention to the rules, he wasn't going to either.  As long as everybody else was getting theirs, he was going to get his.  Everything he'd been taught and everything he'd believed in his whole life was cashed out in pursuit of power.  He didn't care a gazillion beings were killed in a phony war for Sith dominance.  He didn't care about his fellow Jedi anymore.  Just give him some cool lightsabers and show him how to zap people, and he's yours.

The worst one of all is of course, Palpatine.  If he's not the devil, he's just about as bad.  Everyone else exists for one reason and that is how they can be used to attain more power for himself.  Dominion over others is the only thing that matters to the guy.

What about Vader then?  Well, I'm going to address how he's different in another post.


 

  JediMasterPickles
Slowly Turning To The Dark Side!
date Posted: Apr 17, 2006 8:37 PM
I agree with you in every respect, Except for Boba Fett, in the EU (my personal reference point of choice) says that Boba escaped the Sarlacc. And I don't care what anyone says, In MY Star Wars he did escape!
  wubacca da cookie
date Posted: Apr 17, 2006 9:12 PM
I have a counter argument to pretty much all the points you made.

Boba/Jango Fett-Simple men trying to make a living in the universe.
The Star Wars universe is a dangerous place regardless of what era we're talking about. The bloated Republic is too unwieldy to handel most of its own affairs and the Empire was too busy developing the superlazer than they were concerned with handling the criminal under world. When lawlessness reigns, vigilantes like Boba and Jango police the seemy underworld that seems to proloferate the star wars universe. Both men were commisioned by their governments to comit the various "atrocities" attributed to them. All Boba Fett was asked to do was to bring some rebels aka terrorists to justice.
  wubacca da cookie
date Posted: Apr 17, 2006 9:13 PM
Jabba Hutt-Un kana wana, Solo

Jabba brought stability and order to the aforementioned underworld. Would you like drug trafficers like Han Solo jettisoning pounds of cocaine out of his hot rod at the first sign of police cruisers? I thought not. Jabba was utilitarian to the core: He understood the necessity of contolling the illict drug trade, he is himself a pround and nobel being, who better than him? Most people have a problem with his unlawful incarceration. If holdin people against their will is illegal well then I have a basement full of debutantes that I should probably let go.
  wubacca da cookie
date Posted: Apr 17, 2006 9:14 PM
Gen. Grevious and Darth Maul-Soon we will have our revenge

Lets see we have two of the most oppressed groups; Droids and Clones, and we have two beings just following orders in a conflict they had nothing to do with starting. They were as much a vicitim as any other causalty of that bloody conflict. I wonder what the Star Wars equivelent of Semper Fi is?
  wubacca da cookie
date Posted: Apr 17, 2006 9:15 PM

Count Dooku/Darth Tyrannus-What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of a dark lord of the Sith?

All he wanted to do was provide an alternative governing body to the stagnant one he saw rotting before him. Wasn't the United States of America founded on a principal similar to this one? Count Dooku would have gone on to be the George Washington of a Galaxay far far away had he not suffered an untimely beheading.
  wubacca da cookie
date Posted: Apr 17, 2006 9:16 PM
Chancelor Palpatine/Darth Sidious-POWER, UNLIMTED POWER!

He had vision and determination. He was a results guy and he came through, but he had a plan in what was by far the most insidious plot in Star Wars, the betrayl of Anakin Skywalker and ruination of the once proud Jedi order.

I have an Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader on as well but I'll wait for the next one. Thanks for reading that none sense.
  Darth_(Maul)
"At Last We will Reveal ourselves to the Jedi..."
date Posted: Apr 17, 2006 9:43 PM
Oorah! Wubacca da cookie on the Darth Maul Comment.
-DragonMaul
JawaJoey
Return of the Jawa
date Posted: Apr 17, 2006 11:06 PM
Nice observations.

But the morality of Bounty Hunters is highly debatable, and as far as Bounty Hunters go, Boba Fett was one of the better ones of the lot. What I mean is, he killed for the money, and because he was damn good at it. Not because he enjoyed killing. Some other bounty hunters were a lot more...violent, and emotional, in their intentions. For example, dengar hated and hunted Han Solo out of revenge, while Boba had the pride of a good capture, and a huge bounty to motivate him.
  JediMasterPickles
Slowly Turning To The Dark Side!
date Posted: Apr 18, 2006 6:45 AM
In the EU Boba Fett actually saved children from a burning school for no monetary reward
  Aurin_Starkiller
date Posted: Apr 18, 2006 1:10 PM
Boba Fett...

Boba Fett lived out of his own moral code. There were certain things he would do and certain things he would not. In Tales of the Bounty Hunters, in an encounter with Leia, Fett states that sex outside of marriage is wrong, as is rape. He also considers Solo a criminal and the Rebels terrorists and ponders the morality of working for a criminal to catch others. (Jabba) As a young man he was arrested for killing a corrupt politician, an act that we consider wrong, but one that he considered just. Boba Fett believed in order and justice, but maybe a perverted sense of the two.

God Bless,

May the Force grant you wisdom...
  Aurin_Starkiller
date Posted: Apr 18, 2006 1:14 PM
Count Dooku...

Count Dooku was decieved, as were many others. His goal and purpose was not power, but what he thought was best for the galaxy. The galaxy was becoming increasingly unstable, he sought to bring stability. The Jedi were beginning to betray their own teachings and failed to change with the times. The Senate was becoming more and more corrupt with each passing year. He sought to correct this. Palpatine promised him a stable, uncorrupted, and peaceful galaxy. Sort of like the promise he made to Anakin.

God Bless,

May the Schwartz be with you...
  jkelly
There Is No Conflict
date Posted: Apr 18, 2006 4:37 PM
The worst thing about the atrocities of Fett, Jabba, and Dooku was that they rationalized their actions through some sort of fake "code" -- as ascribed by previous commentators. If they were just honest about what they were doing, like Palps, they wouldn't be as reprehensible. On top of everything else those guys did, they are just liars. Palps is a liar, too, but at least he's honest to himself and not rationalizing his action.

To argue they followed some sort of "code" or "personal morality" is an open invitation to the type of moral relativism that allowed slavery to continue and allowed Capone to rise to power.
MissPadme
Miss Padme's Naboo Love Nest
date Posted: Apr 18, 2006 9:31 PM
To address the responses in general, I'm only going by what's in the films, not stuff from the Expanded Universe. Boba Fett got a lot of sweetheart press in the '90s due to his popularity in fandom, which attempted to mitigate or somehow give some sort of honor to what he did. I like Boba just fine as a character, but he's not what you'd call a good guy. *Shrug.* As for the other characters, if you can't see what they were doing was wrong, I can't help you.
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