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 | Moose Poodoodate posted: May 10, 2006 11:55 AM | updated: May 11, 2006 8:57 AM |
 | We'll Be Right Back... |
 Ok let's set the stage...
A New Hope. Aged combatants square off to settle an old score - a former master, and his ex-apprentice. Once again, Vader stalks his prey, but this time it's no naive farmboy. This time it's a practiced Jedi Master, ancient though he may appear. Obi-Wan, returned from his exile on Tatooine, has come back to finish a mission given to him 20 years earlier. Rigidly, the knights circle one another, anachronistic warriors from a more civilized time. As their sabers clash, it becomes clear to us..Escape is not his plan. Obi-Wan mentions unimaginable power to Vader if he should fall to his red blade. Vader presses on, undeterred, savoring only the taste of revenge against his old...
*sigh* ok fine I guess this is when Han, Chewie, Luke, Leia and the droids need to be reunited so that they can board the Falcon...alright...can we..just...get back to the..? ok nevermind.
Empire Strikes Back then. Luke and Vader are locked in straight up Mortal Kombat. The Dark Lord taunts Luke, and in truth Sithly fashion pulls Luke into the fray, into darker and darker recesses of Cloud City. Vader pushes a sweat drenched Luke to his limits, and all the while we know it's too soon for him to take on the Dark Side. His failure at the cave...remember his failure at the cave. Vader beckons Luke to release his anger. The duo, good and evil, edge closer to destiny, in which no good can come of this conflict...somehow we know Luke's very soul is on the ...
And cut to witty 3PO and R2 banter. Ok then. Yep. Ok strange computers - that was kinda funny. And now Chewie is banging 3PO's melon on the doorframe. Ok. Alright then..that's..that's kinda funny but...ok fine.
Alright then let's try the grandaddy of all edits - enter the Throne Room in Return of the Jedi. Now we're alone with the key players in one of the most climactic, and darkly potent scenes in the entire saga. We've never met the Emperor before, not face to face. He oozes malevolent power. He's winding Luke up with his mental gymnastics, pitting father against son for their very survival. Meanwhile, outside the viewport, the metaphysical battle for Luke's soul, and Anakin's, is mirrored in one of the most desperate and awe-inspiring clashes we've ever seen. The odds are clearly insurmountable. Trapped between an inescapable Imperial Fleet and the looming space station, the Rebellion is poised to be chewed to pieces. Dogfights swarm, fiery crashes blossom, suicide runs blaze into final tragic glory, titanic superlasers arc across the inky depths of space to annihilate ...
And cut to an Ewok. Oh no wait, two ewoks. Oh what are they doing? Oh that's cute. Yeah. Wrapping the rope around the leg of the AT-ST..that's...that's cute. ok. Ok. Alright then.
Ok forget that noise - let's get into the Prequels. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon stalk a wary spectre, something that shouldn't exist, but does - a Sith named Darth Maul. His twin-sided blade blurs like a whirling dervish, drawing crimson swaths of danger in its wake. The Master and his Padawan press onward, bearing down on the snarling visage of Maul as he backs away, leading them into a place of his choosing. High above them, another battle likewise rages - an impossible assault of a small squadron against the awesome might of the Trade Fed Control Ship. All seems certainly lost. Suddenly Jedi and Apprentice are separated. Qui-Gon relentlessly pursues Maul but as the Duel of Fates crescendos, somehow we know something has gone horribly..
OH fer CRYIN out loud. What is that? Jar-Jar?! Seriously. Jar-Har. You have GOT to be kidding me. :0)
Ever notice how GL can be purposefully frustrating to heighten the tension? He kinda cracks me up sometimes. He's very concerned with pace, and intercutting scenes. He's on record more than a few times saying he's concerned that the pace of a scene will be "exhausting" to the audience, so he tries to throw in different elements.
I think it was quite masterful in Return of the Jedi - the Throne Room confrontation between Luke, Vader and the Emperor is perfectly played off of the events of the space battle.
It's..that third element he throws in. It's always so very very frustrating. Somehow, in the midst of a ptich battle between good and evil, the last thing you want to see is comedy relief. But that layer, let's call it the "cutaway", somehow makes the experience more memorable.
What do you think? Masterful editing or annoying quirk?
DM out
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http://blogs.starwars.com/moosepoodo/83 |
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jkthunder
Seven Pieces
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 12:11 PM
In many other films that, may actually be following in the sneaker steps of GL, the cutaway method can be annoying and seem outright contrived. Lucas seemed to have a knack for timing in that it never annoyed me in the SW films, and actually kept my attention span up to a healthy trot before the scenes got too long. Masterful for George and the editing crews (wasn't that his wife for ANH?), annoying quirk for a lot of other filmmakers. GL gets the jkthunder lick of approval.
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Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 12:14 PM
What do you think? Masterful editing or annoying quirk?
Probably the most disconcerting cut (well two actually) I find is in AOTC. One is during the Ani-Padme / Battle Droid creation scene. The parents of Luke and Leia are fighting for their lives while 3PO is getting a makeover. The other is during the Genosis battle where 3PO is getting another makeover in the middle of another very intense scene. Even though your blog addresses GL's reasons for such things, I still find them disruptive.
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JediMasterPickles
Slowly Turning To The Dark Side!
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 12:31 PM
Not a fan of this style of Editorial myself, When I watch a film, any film.. even crap ones, I like to get drawn in and effectively be in the film, if you want, and as I'm getting sucked in, really engrossed in the actions of two excellent fighters kicking the granny out of each other. The last thing that I want to see is a cut away to Jar Jar tripping over a bucket!
Don't know why!?! 
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DarthVicomte
Vicomte's Blog Extravaganza (Now Defunct)
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 12:39 PM
The only truly effective use of the 'Drama, draaamaaa, draaaamaaaaa-funny!' technique I've ever seen is the stuff Joss Whedon does, it just works for him.
The Obi/Vader duel in ROTS? As climactic and tense the Yoda/Sidious duel was, I really just cared about the brothers, forced to do battle. Nothing else mattered, and I found it annoying that the moment was interrupted by another, which, even though it drew you in, was not nearly as grasping as the emotions you felt with Obi and Vader.
Anyone know exactly what a whirling dervish is? Anyone?
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Vader of Clubs
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 12:55 PM
I was gonna cry RotS, but Vimcote got there first, so I'll just add a Joss Whedon one:
Buffy, fighting her newly murderous ex-boyfriend, sprinklers spraying to simulate rain and tragedy and all that . . . cut away to a guy pointing at a disembodied arm from the guy they just blew up, saying: "arm! arm!" Anyway. It's brief, and it's funny. Juxtapositioning can work, cinematically.
I guess this is why I like the AotC 'sabre battle - Dooku deals with Anakin, faces off Kenobi, tackles the steadily getting madder Anakin with two sabres, deals with him. Then, John Wayne style, in walks Yoda and the real fight starts . . .
I like the process. But I see how it could annoy everyone else.
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Darth_Alpha1
Sith Happens, but Jedi Rocks
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 12:56 PM
Artoo: *Beep, boop, boop, be doop*
C-3P0: Why my obtuse little friend if they really meant we were annoying and intrusive...why they would've said it straight to us.
Artoo: *bashful, embarrassed tones*
But no, seriously I think that GL is excellent at intercutting scenes to add for the most excitement available, close-ups, explosions, etc. I mean just look at the Podrace!
(continued)
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Darth_Alpha1
Sith Happens, but Jedi Rocks
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 12:57 PM
(continued)
But then being George, understanding the values of the world and that he has a growing fanbase under the prime age of ten, he throws in the little scene as if to say, "Look kids, everything's okay...really it is. I mean 3PO and R2 and Jar-Jar and Chewie and all your pals are doing fine! Oh and your other pals might die...but it's kinda cool huh!"
No there's nothing wrong with a bit of comic relief, I mean if anything the prequels could use one or two more R2-3PO scenes thrown in, but yes it does have the counter-effect of somewhat cutting the tension of the moment for some of the older fans caught up in the fictional history being made, or just the really cool lightsaber moves!
(continued)
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Darth_Alpha1
Sith Happens, but Jedi Rocks
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 12:57 PM
(continued)
Either way I feel my first argument justifies it a tad further, but yes if there was some way to cut those three...if that...minutes out to just have a pure adrenaline pumped epic duel, I would say "WELL GET TO WORK ON IT GUYS!!"
There's always 3-D fans, there's always 3-D...*sigh* Which reminds me, once again I acknowledge the Antlered One for his mastery of observing those subtle little things that we're all afraid to say we noticed before...amazing... 
DA1 Force be with Ya'
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The Stooge
Star Wars Joke-A-Day
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 12:59 PM
I'd say it's more of a storytelling device than anything else. To create action set pieces in their entirety is extremely complex -- you have to get Character A to Point B while making sure the viewer doesn't lose track of Goal C... and keep it all interesting. So a relatively simple way around this is to design action scenes as short blips of a battle, intercut with separate blips of another fight (or whatever). Doing so also allows for much more freedom during the filming and editing process.
So yes, we're left without certain specifics (why did Sidious put away his lightsaber?), but otherwise, the script would take forever to be finished. If GL did it the hard way, we'd still be waiting for Episode I.
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Vader of Clubs
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 1:00 PM
[Cont]
The RotJ one is supposed to have redefined cinema, though - the continuously action filled third act, with three battles going on - okay, one's comedy, but it's also Han and Leia, the human interest of this story, the ones who, ultimately, tend to be our favourite characters. Besides which, once the battle is over we focus elsewhere.
And I guess the Hope one needed to be intercut, so that Ben could die in front of Luke. Couldn't very well have Luke run into the hangerbay then cut away to the 'sabre fight and have it all start up - or have Ben die then explain how Luke got there.
Shodding character limit . . .
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Vader of Clubs
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 1:00 PM
Also might be worth noting that in the Matrix Revolutions there is a tendancy to focus on one fight at a time: in Xion. Then elsewhere. Then finally on Neo in the Matrix once everything is over. And, lets be honest, which films wind up better?
Star Wars!
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gatorjedi1969
Shhhhh. You hear that?
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 1:07 PM
Well good 'ole internet searching came up with;
Noun: whirling dervish
1. A dervish whose actions include ecstatic dancing and whirling
- whirler
Derived forms: whirling dervishes
Type of: dervish
Encyclopedia: Whirling dervish
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Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 1:40 PM
Anyone know exactly what a whirling dervish is? Anyone?
Noun: whirling dervish
1. A dervish whose actions include ecstatic dancing and whirling
- whirler
Do dervishes make noise when they whirl? 
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ThrawnRocks1
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 1:42 PM
Ah! Turkish dancers!
I sorta hated the Jar-Jar intercuts. Never had another problem with it, but I hated the Jar-Jar cuts. I wanted to see some competent Gungans fighting, to compliment the novice Anakin flying, along with an epic saber duel.
I loved the ROTJ final act. It flowed very smoothly. Who cares about Ewoks? At least they're not Jar-Jar. Not that I have any grudge against him. I just didn't appreciate him breaking up one of my favorite duels.
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RyanKaufman
Look, sir! Zombies!
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 1:45 PM
He's always referred to the movies as being influenced by 40's serials and B-movies. This is really classic pacing, in terms of film language.
Tense scene, end on a cliff-hanger, cut to comic relief. Cut back to tension. Check out Errol Flynn's Robin Hood-- great examples of this.
I think GL's technique makes scenes like the Throne Room and the Maul fight more palatable to younger kids. It doesn't brow-beat them with overwhelming imagery.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 2:11 PM
Tense scene, end on a cliff-hanger, cut to comic relief. Cut back to tension. Check out Errol Flynn's Robin Hood-- great examples of this..
See - that's it exactly- I know that's exactly what he's doing - build build build, ok reprieve..and in tandem to this idea of following the 40's serials pattern, he also has said several times his style is "symphonic" in nature, building, and then variation, and return to the theme, and building.
It may be as sophisticated as it is pandering to a younger audience. But I remember even when I was ..what 12? 13? and I was watching ROTJ, every time he cut to an Ewok I wanted to strangle something :0) However.., that's also what made it engrossing.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 2:13 PM
Anyone know exactly what a whirling dervish is?
A dervish that rotates rapidly, I believe.. :0)
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 2:34 PM
It was particularly maddening, however, in TPM. Because in ROTJ, you had this cool ground battle with AT-ST's to cut to, even if it involved frying teddy bears.
But cutting from the obligatory Space Battle and Lightsaber duel (the best lightsaber duel on film, ever) to Jar-Jar antics very nearly made me burst a blood vessel. That third element that you cut to has to actually...you know...relieve the tension, not create it :0)
DM out
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amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 3:14 PM
Masterful editing or annoying quirk?
How about masterfully annoying quirk?
I think you just figured out for me why ROTS is my favorite of the films, DM. Even though there are edits between the two climactic duels (and Yoda's Force-slamming the red guards against the wall is clearly injected for a bit of comic relief...effective comic relief), the seriousness of the subject matter is never undercut in Ep lll.
Well...except at the Tarzan call during the battle on Kashyyyk. What was UP with that????
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The Stooge
Star Wars Joke-A-Day
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 3:20 PM
But cutting from the obligatory Space Battle and Lightsaber duel (the best lightsaber duel on film, ever) to Jar-Jar antics very nearly made me burst a blood vessel.
I always figured that GL was just trying to top his previous work, i.e.:
-- one battle in climax of ANH (death star)
-- two battles in climax of ESB (Luke v. Vader, Leia's escape)
-- three in ROTJ (Luke v. Vader, ewoks v. imps, space battle)
-- four in TPM (Jedi vs. Sith, Gungans vs. droids, space battle, and Amidala retakes the castle)
By AOTC, I think he figured out that it was overkill.
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Son of a Bith
The Cantina Corner
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date Posted: May 10, 2006 9:21 PM
GL isn't the first. In technical terms, it is called "parallel streams of action." I learned about it in film. A man by the name of D.W. Griffith mastered it in the film Birth of a Nation. It's a silent flick that came out in 1915. It's about the Civil War, and it is the first major American blockbuster.
Oh yeah, it's kind of a pro-Ku Klux Klan propaganda film too.
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_Darth_Indy_
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Star Wars
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date Posted: May 11, 2006 8:15 AM
Great blog! Wish I had thought of it first.
Anyhoo... to answer your question... I think the added scenes are (mostly) pretty good, and at at least some to the story. BUT NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BLASTED GOOD FIGHT! The only good intercut was the switching between the Obi-Wan/Vanakin & Yoda/Sideous fights. No comedy releif there (unless you count the force-flung red guards). IMHO, though, they would have been much better seperate, allowing you to follow the fights more closely.
Now back to your regularly scheduled comments.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: May 11, 2006 9:04 AM
How about masterfully annoying quirk?
I think that's closer to the mark. GL knows what he's doing - and like Ryan points out, its like the old Saturday matinees. Don't think for a second people didn't hurl popcorn at the screen when they left you with a cliffhanger. It's annoying on purpose :0)
GL isn't the first. In technical terms, it is called "parallel streams of action." I learned about it in film.
But in some ways an archaic practice. The lflipside would be just a relentlessly linear appracoh - I felt "War of the Worlds" went too far in this direction. It really was sort of exhausting after a while.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: May 11, 2006 11:17 AM
Great blog! Wish I had thought of it first.
Thanks - its one of those things you think about but never really put into words I think :0)
Anyhoo... to answer your question... I think the added scenes are (mostly) pretty good, and at at least some to the story. BUT NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BLASTED GOOD FIGHT!
It's exactly when the tension is at its highest point that he cuts to an Ewok - not before or after - that exact point - which is soo...mean. :0) GL is manipulative! Of course, he's supposed to be - he's a director.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: May 11, 2006 11:19 AM
I always figured that GL was just trying to top his previous work, i.e.:
-- one battle in climax of ANH (death star)
-- two battles in climax of ESB (Luke v. Vader, Leia's escape)
-- three in ROTJ (Luke v. Vader, ewoks v. imps, space battle)
-- four in TPM (Jedi vs. Sith, Gungans vs. droids, space battle, and Amidala retakes the castle)
By AOTC, I think he figured out that it was overkill.
Excellent point, Stooge - I never really thought about it in those terms, and despite trying, couldn't think of something comparable from AOTC. Ep3 has it, but just between Yoda and Obi-Wan, Emperor and Vader - no "3rd element."
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: May 11, 2006 11:22 AM
For him to have gone for 5 or 6 deep would have truly been confusing.
The formula, as I see it, is 2 parallel serious action threads, and one "cutaway" for a sort of comic relief - however sometimes even that takes on a serious note (Ewoks dying in ROTJ). It's all meant to build the tension via a sort of emotional roller coaster ride.
I think, like you say, sometimes he runs another parallel, like Amidala capturing the Viceroy, just to see if previous work can be "topped". It worked...sorta..in TPM, except that the cutaway, the "relief" element..was Jar-Jar :0) Thus - no relief.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: May 11, 2006 1:00 PM
I enjoyed Captain Tarpals a lot
I did too, he kept Jar Jar in line. Him and the other cat with the cattle prod. :0)
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DJ Maul: Got Feet?
DJ Maul's Dancin' Cantina Party
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date Posted: May 12, 2006 8:10 AM
Not to jump on the Jar jar bashing wagon, but I agree that was the worst of the intercuts. I kept HOPING against hope that at some point in the battle process Jar Jar would ride above his clumsiness and idiocy and do something amazingly CLEVER to help save the day, making him a HERO worthy of Star Wars...instead, he surrenders when surrounded....although he DOES manage to blow up a TON of battle droids...completly by ACCIDENT!
Yea, those scenes could cause a brain hemmorage if one let them.
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: May 12, 2006 8:33 AM
True, and honestly I've traditionally been a Jar-Jar apologist - he didn't ruin TPM for me as he may have for others. I only bring him up in the framework of this particular editing style, because he provides a contrast. In ROTJ, the intercuts were perfect, Ewoks included. In TPM, it ended up lacking because Jar-Jar was that random element. I think that's a great point about waiting for Jar-Jar to do something meaningful, redeeming even. We saw some small about of heroics from the Ewoks. The gungans were just sort of cannon fodder, and in Jar-Jar's case, it would have given his character some depth if he had ...you know..not saved the day just by being a doofball :0)
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DJ Maul: Got Feet?
DJ Maul's Dancin' Cantina Party
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date Posted: May 12, 2006 10:46 PM
Getting sidetracked here on Jar Jar, but I find it funny that Lucas basically thew the character to the wolves in Ep II by making HIM the one who nominates Palpatine for "special emergency powers."
Lucas MUST have heard of the Jar Jar backlash, ( I dont really HATE him either) but instead of using Ep II to give Jar Jar a chance to do something RIGHT, he instead adds insult to injury by having him duped by Palpatine into what becomes the eventual downfall of The Republic.
I guess George said "OK, you want to hate him so much? Here's a REAL reason to despise him!"
go figure.
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General Tarfful
The Kachirho Daily Journal
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date Posted: May 14, 2006 4:24 PM
I enjoyed Captain Tarpals a lot
I did too, he kept Jar Jar in line. Him and the other cat with the cattle prod. :0)
When I hear you say that, all I can think of is Jedi Outcast. That must have been the best videogame weapon ever...
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The Dark Moose
Moose Poodoo
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date Posted: May 15, 2006 12:19 PM
The parents of Luke and Leia are fighting for their lives while 3PO is getting a makeover.
I totally forgot about that - you're right of course - same "parallel action" process going on, except in this case, it happens to all be going on in the same location. I think that's why I forgot about it.
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jediracer41
Jediracer
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date Posted: May 15, 2006 6:10 PM
Whirling dervish: it's a dance, blogsters. I think it's Shakespeare. Of course, that's the safe answer for anything English you don't quite understand...
Nice blog, Moose: way to get into the strategy of the movies. The literary analyst in me loves it.
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leialookalike1
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date Posted: May 16, 2006 7:25 AM
As far I am concerned, you wanna know about Star Wars? WATCH THE MOVIES
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jediV-man
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date Posted: May 18, 2006 2:27 PM
MASTERFUL EDITING ALL THE WAY!!!!!!! only thing i wish they would edit in is a han solo like character for the prequels, but since that is an impossibility, i will enjoy what i have and the masterful editing that is provided. Bye for now.
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