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Star Wars, Star Trek... I prefer Babylon 5 most.
by: LtCmdrTurok
date posted: Feb 16, 2006 2:09 PM
A "fact" related contest: SW v. ST
A topic of increasingly more debate recently is the age-old fanboy attack: Star Wars vs. Star Trek. As for which I have a higher opinions of, I feel that they both have merits but that Babylon 5 is superior.

Technically speaking, it has been said that the Galactic Empire would school the United Federation of Planets in space combat, but that the UFP would have the upper hand in a land-based campaign.

While this is "true", the comparison is unfair. The Galactic Empire is the "big dog" of the Star Wars galaxy, controlling about 89% of the galaxy at its height. The UFP, however, barely controls 10% of the galaxy. For the contest to be fair, I propose we look at a fight between the "big dogs" of each universe: the Empire vs. the Borg.

We'll look at an engagement between each of the forces' standard capital ships (for technical information, I used this site for an ISD, and DITL for a standard Borg Cube).

We'll start the battle in space: the 1,600 meter-long Star Destroyer is dwarfed by the 3,036 meter-per-side Cube. As the Borg approach, they issue their standard greeting: "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile." This would get the Imperial OIC uppity, and he would scramble his 72 TIE-series fighters to deal with this menace. Star Trek is noted for not having starfighters, but there is a good reason for this. The computer targeting systems in Star Trek ships are very precise, especially on the larger ships. Once the Borg locked on to the starfighters, its plasma and cutting beams would be hard-pressed to miss. The Imperial-class ship would by this time bring its considerable armament to bear, peppering the cube's surface with turbolaser and ion cannon damage. But soon, the Imperial headway would cease, as the ship's adaptive shielding would nullify the energy weapons' effect. The ISD would then likely find itself in a tractor beam, and under fire from the Borgs' powerful weaponry. Eventually the Star Destroyer's shields would give out, and then the sheer difference in the Borgs' strategy would be revealed, as they began beaming aboard to assimilate the ship and its crew.

So now we move the battle aboard the Star Destroyer. At first, the ship's 9,700 troops would easily mow the Borg down, despite the cyborgs' tendency to beam aboard behind their defensive line. But then, as occured with the ship, the blasters would suddenly lose effectiveness as the drones' adaptive shielding adapted to absorb the superheated bolts of ionized gas. The Imperial crew of 46,780 (standard crew plus soldiers) would succumb to the Borg onslaught of 100,000, joining the Borg collective and giving the Borg exacting intel on Imperial fleet strength and movements in that sector.

Let's make the borading operation more fair, shall we? Along with stormtroopers, what if the Imperial ship is manned by some dark Jedi? The Jedi would easily carve through the Borg, and maybe even kill a few with the Force, before the Borgs' personal shields adapted to the lightsaber's blade and nanite tubuoles violated the Jedi's neck.

What if the ISD captain, seeing his fighters being picked off, decided to flee? The Star Destroyer couldn't outrun the Borg cube (the cube has transwarp, after all), and the calculations for a hyperspace jump would probably take too long for falling back to be much of an option.

So there you have it. Though the Borg only control about 38% of their galaxy, their stratagem of overpowering their foes with size and numbers would win the day. Now, I know some of you will see this contest as unfair, and claim that a Super Star Destroyer could kill a Borg Cube easily. While that may be "true", there were fewer than a half-dozen SSDs around at the height of the Empire, while the Borg navy boasts hundreds (if not thousands) of Cubes and Tactical cubes. The Executor would not get the opportunity to fight only one cube.

Feel free to comment and question, though please don't flame me or each other.

  Aurin_Starkiller
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 2:25 PM
Good day...

Finally, someone who is willing to admit the technical prowess of Star Trek in a fair fight against the two. Interesting that you chose the Borg to be the enemy.

However, let's look at the battle at hand. While I agree that a single Star Destroyer could not compare with a Borg cube, there are some things in your scenario that I tend to disagree with.

Chief amongst these is the ease to which you illustrate the Dark Jedi falling. Remember that the lightsaber is not a Jedi's only weapon. After they discovering the Borg's adaptation to their energy weapons, the Dark Jedi will take down many of the Borg using the Force. Sooner or later they would be overwhelmed, but they would not fall so easily.

God Bless,

MTFBWY
  LtCmdrTurok
Star Wars, Star Trek... I prefer Babylon 5 most.
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 2:29 PM
Alas, you are correct that the Jedi would put up an incredible fight, and I could've worded that better.
  Aurin_Starkiller
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 2:32 PM
Also...

Do not underestimate the presence of heroes/villains in a battle. They can often turn the tide. Let's say that Grand Admiral Thrawn, or Darth Vader, or another Imperial bad### was present on board. It would give the Imperials an advantage that might give them a fighting chance.

Oh, and I think that you got the Space/Land battle analysis reversed. The Galactic Empire has far more experience in land battles and they have armies. I'm not sure if I've seen very many land battles concerning the Federation. However, the Federation would win in space because of their technological ability. If you read some of the Star Trek books, laser technology doesn't even damage their shields.

God Bless
  Aurin_Starkiller
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 2:35 PM
All in all, tis a very interesting blog you have here. Keep up the ideas, and if anyone flames you saying that Star Trek sucks, just ignore them. I haven't seen much of Babylon 5, so I can't comment too much on that, but nothing is better than Star Wars.

On a side note, wouldn't it be cool to have a fan fiction of Boba Fett hunting Borg...

Just an idea...

God Bless
  Padawan Binks
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 2:44 PM
Nice battle design, though I feel you gave the Imperials too much credit, they could only "mow down" 2 borg before adaptation, you make it sound like a couple hundred. It's very doubtful a Jedi would be abourd, though if one was he would do more damage with the force in my opinion (force lightning the borg anyone?). The only problem would arrise if some of the crew used vibro-blades, which the Borg have never shown an ability to adapt to (I cite Worf's attacking the borg with his Bat'leth for an example of the borg's innability to adapt to that). Nice presentation.
  LtCmdrTurok
Star Wars, Star Trek... I prefer Babylon 5 most.
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 2:48 PM
To Aurin_Starkiller:

Well, for their shape, the UFP's phasers would be terribly hard to shoot, and yet the characters in Star Trek fire them very accurately. They also don't have to worry about ammunition, and the phasers can be set to wide beam.

As for the Federation's shields, it was said in a TNG episode that lasers wouldn't even penetrate the navigational deflectors, but the heavy weapons in Star Wars are blasters. Lasers are coherent beams of light, whereas blaster bolts are tiny streams of superheated Tibanna gas hept coherent via ionizaiton or some sort of energy field. Turbolasers are especially deadly; they've been seen completely pulverizing asteroids with a single shot.
  LtCmdrTurok
Star Wars, Star Trek... I prefer Babylon 5 most.
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 2:51 PM
To Padawan Binks:

I'm giving the forced laborers of the Empire the benefit of the doubt, assuming that not all of BlasTech's E-11 rifles' blaster bolts have the same energy signature.

Also, you are correct about melee combat, but how many stormtroopers have you seen carrying around vibroblades?
  Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 2:53 PM
I've never been a fan of these kind of match ups, they only lead to flaming, but I'll lend a few comments anyway.

The Star Destroyer couldn't outrun the Borg cube
How fast is Transwarp actually supposed to be? I thought it still took a matter of days/weeks or perhaps even months to cross the ST Galaxy at Transwarp? Certain Hyperdrives can seemingly do it in a matter of hours.

Additionally, I'm not sure if a lightsaber even could be adapted to, it's an energy melee weapon, not a beam weapon, I suspect it could "Break through" the adaptation. And Jedi could outrun borg anyway :)

Finally, it's a little known fact that cubes have a small thermal exaust port, right below the main port, a presise hi... :p
  Aurin_Starkiller
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 2:56 PM
LtCmdrTurok...

Thanks for correcting me about the Turbolasers. However, I believe that the Phasers and Photon Torpedoes would do more damage. Btw, why don't Star Destroyers have Proton Torpedo launchers?

Thanks also for the elaboration on the hand phasers. However, the question of experience and numbers comes to mind. The Federation doesn't have a trained army, their security officers are often proficient fighters, but Star Destroyers often carry several units of battle-hardened Stormtroopers.

My original opinion stands, though. The Federation is best in Space. Now, if the Klingons were to fight the Stormtroopers, that would be a fun match to watch.

God Bless
  LtCmdrTurok
Star Wars, Star Trek... I prefer Babylon 5 most.
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 3:29 PM
To Rive Caedo:

The problem with the FTL drives in question is that we aren't given precise speeds in terms of C for either. I went with the safe assumption that both were about as fast. (The USS Voyager entered a transwarp hub 63,000 lightyears from earth and rode it for an indeterminate amount of time (apparently only a couple of hours), exiting well within Federation space)

Although the lightsaber is a melee weapon, its blade is made of a loop of plasma. Plasma is the visual component of electricity, like that on a Jacob's ladder or finger. Also, we saw lightsabers being unable to breach force fields in Episode 1.

And Aurin, I think a much more interesting fight would be the Klingons vs. Wookiees.:D
  Darth Rex0
So be it....
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 4:15 PM
Finally, it's a little known fact that cubes have a small thermal exaust port, right below the main port, a presise hi...

The best analysis yet. I think the Empire would somehow have to lure the Federation into a ground war where thier technology and numbers would help them prevail. That blasted naval bombardment from space would still get'em though. I don't know, these kinds of matchups are hard because ST is science fiction and SW isn't.
The Stooge
Star Wars Joke-A-Day
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 5:45 PM
these kinds of matchups are hard because ST is science fiction and SW isn't

I dunno. Babylon 5 is undoubtedly science-fiction... but Star Trek? Fiction, maybe, but their science is a joke. I could never take ST technology seriously because it's so clear that the ST writers didn't -- and a serious look at technology is crucial to being considered true sci-fi.

As for Star Wars, I agree, it's pure fantasy. Which is why it's so darn enjoyable. Star Wars doesn't care to take its technology too seriously, because it's trying to be myth, not science fiction.

LtCmdrTurok -- good to have another B5 junkie blogging!
  On_a_Dewback_With_no _Name
The footprints of a Dewback
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 5:58 PM
Technically true transwarp is infinitely fast. This is showed on Voyager when they modified one of their shuttles to go Warp 10 (transwarp). What the Borg use appears to be a form of artificial wormhole similar to what appears in Star Trek the Motion Picture, and it would seem this wormhole is comparable in speed to Star Wars hyperdrives

In fact the two tunnels look so similar I would almost say that the Borg's transwarp conduits and hyperspace are the same thing.

  On_a_Dewback_With_no _Name
The footprints of a Dewback
date Posted: Feb 16, 2006 5:58 PM
  Blue leader46
The CIS Shadowfeed Department
date Posted: Feb 17, 2006 2:24 AM
A star destroyer might lose against a Borg Cube, but a Super Star Destroyer or the Death Star would whip it's arse. Go Empire!
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