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 | Was Mace wrong? |
I've heard it said, on the streets, in other blogs, and elsewhere, that Mace Windu was wrong to have tried to kill Palpatine. That this was not like a Jedi. Yes, even as we acknowledge this, we still cheer him. And, if he had succeeded, he would have been darkened in some tragic way.
Was he wrong?
Looking only at the moment of choice, whether or not he had actually defeated Palpatine, was this wrong?
Reflexively it seems straightforward. Killing is wrong, right?
Well, yes and no. Killing is sometimes wrong. After all, if someone attacks you, with obvious intent to do harm, is it wrong to defend yourself, if doing so will obviously mean your assailants death?
Consider too, Yoda and Obi-Wan's killing of clone troopers in Revenge. Are the clones somehow less than other humans? May they be killed without consequence?
Consider that in A New Hope millions are killed when the Death Star destroys Alderaan. Later, Luke destroys the Death Star. One we clearly say is wrong, the other, right. Is this inconsistent? Or, is there something more to be considered, some distinction between these two. The destruction of Alderaan, was the callous, calculated killing as a demonstration of power. It wasn't even to get information from Leia, Tarkin made that perfectly clear. The location of the rebel base she gave was a lie, but Tarkin wasn't about to consider another target. Alderaan made a better demonstration of the power of the Death Star. And Luke destroying the Death Star? In doing so he stopped the slayings that would have continued had the Death Star survived.
Consider instances in our own history, like Count Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg's attempt to kill Adolf Hitler with a briefcase bomb. Was he wrong to try to do so? What if he had succeeded? Would any of us say that he was wrong? Not many, that much is sure.
"Thou Shall Not Kill."
So, what is the distinction, when is killing wrong? After all, almost every religious and philosophical tradition condemns it, right?
Actually, no, killing is not universally condemned. Indeed, that classic phase in the Ten Commandments "Thou Shall Not Kill.", in the original Hebrew reads more like, "Thou Shall Not Commit Murder."
So, what is the distinction? It's in the intent. Anakin knew, at least before succumbing to the Chancellor's deceptions, to paraphrase, "Jedi use their power to help others" and "The Sith think only of themselves." When Jedi must kill, it is only defend others, not to benefit themselves.
"Good is a point-of-view"
All right, so if the distinction between killing and murder is in the intent. What about those whose philosophy says that everyone else is evil? Is it not good for them to kill everyone who is evil and out to do harm, from their point-of-view.
This is a much different question than "is killing wrong?", now we are asking, "is killing right?"
Who would defend killing as right? As good? Who in our own history has done so? When has killing been called "right and good"? The Nazis? Stalin and his purges?
It seems that those, who most would call evil, are the ones to say that killing is good or right.
So, we can safely say that while killing is not always condemned as wrong, it is almost never accepted as right and good. Even if you are forced to defend yourself against an assailant and in the end kill your assailant, I dare say, few would say this was good. But, we would rather say that it was merely necessary, a result of the other's wrong.
"The oppression of the Sith will never return" to paraphrase master Windu.
Mace Windu wasn't wrong, he had tried to defeat and capture Palpatine. For which, he got a face full of lightning. How do you capture someone who can do this? Any attempt to do so would clearly require that he drop his defense in order to do so. This in mind, his first intent failed, there was but one last option. We can see the conflict in Mace's eyes as he is forced to choose, not the good choice, merely the necessary one.
I wonder, was it right for Anakin to stop Mace?
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http://blogs.starwars.com/platosgalacticrepublic/1 |

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* Cerasi *
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date Posted: Jul 31, 2005 2:56 AM
I believe it was right.
They all knew that the sith lord had a deep grip on the senate, taking him to a trial of some sort would only end up him walking free. His followers in the senate would over power the good and would result in the realease of plpatine. If mace windu hadn't hesitated there would be no fall of the republic and ultimatly no orrigional saga.What was done was all part of the prophecy and Anakin wouldn't have been able to forfil it if other wise.
From Cerasi
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Singin Hobo I find your lack of pants disturbing
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date Posted: Jul 31, 2005 5:12 AM
I've had thoughts almost identical to this. And put them in this entry.
The basic gist of it is this: Luke and Mace were faced with the same decision, one chose life, the other chose death... both of their choices were altered by Vader/Anakin.
When it came down to it Luke wouldn't kill the dangerous Sith Lord, but Mace would.
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Kermit The Blog of a Frog
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date Posted: Jul 31, 2005 5:26 AM
Mace was simply doing what most Jedi would have done: Eliminate the source of evil.
Anakin beheading Dooku wasn't really a bad thing, considering Dooku was a Sith, but the reasons he did it were wrong.
Mace wasn't going to kill Sidious out of revenge. He was simply trying to do his duty.
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Darth Exucphra
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date Posted: Jul 31, 2005 12:55 PM
From a certain point of view he was wrong as this would have caused an outrage and lead to the death of all jedi and caused due to the confusion to victory of the separatists but he was wrong also in the view of the jedi palps was unarmed but he was right to try to destroy the on responsible for starting the war
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Herb3
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date Posted: Aug 01, 2005 3:49 PM
You know, that is avery hard question to answer. I would say what he did was wrong. Because he was kind of, of a bait to trick anakin, to feel more passion and rage, which will lead him more toward the darkside.
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Darth Exucphra
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date Posted: Aug 03, 2005 10:59 AM
i guess mace could not have killed palps. palps could have killed him whenever he wanted to but if he could get anakin to attack mace then he could not go back to the jedi or he would be exiled
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Cassus Fett6
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date Posted: Aug 12, 2005 2:10 PM
you see, mace was a vaapad user, this means he can get very close to the darkside, but not be evil, this is why he is a great swordsman. When fighting a sith, one(make it sound like an everyday thing) can get frustrated, some may notice that mace wasn't using vaapad all the time, until the death of kit, he was using form 6 or something. He got frustrated, got closer to the darkside, closer, closer, closer.......
Not that he was becoming evil, he was getting frustrated. His fellow jedi have died, the battle is too long, he feels he is getting toyed with. His decision may be wrong, maybe....
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Lord-Avatar
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date Posted: Aug 14, 2005 5:03 PM
He was wrong cause jedi do not kill unarmed prisoners as forshadowed by anakin when he killed dooku. The whole reason for dooku's death was to show us how easily tempted anakin is by his emotions but that underneath it all and after the fact, he does know whats right and wrong as per trained by the jedi. Even though i do beleive that mace beat palps and that the timing of anakin entering the office is more a factor of ANAKIN's timing rather than palpatine.
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Lord-Avatar
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date Posted: Aug 14, 2005 5:03 PM
Palps knows that even if anakin didnt show mace would still only arrest him. That is why palps then pushes mace further with the lightning, so that anakin can have a "point of view" to hold onto. It allows him to justify his actions mentally whereas we all know why he wanted to do it emotionally. (kinda like he always blamed obiwan for when he would do things through emotion, now he can blame the jedi order for his lust to padme)
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Lord-Avatar
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date Posted: Aug 14, 2005 5:08 PM
Palps essentially knew that anakin wanted to lash out emotionally but underneath he followed the rules of the jedi for doing the right thing. Getting anakin to be passionate as a sith is very easy, manipulationg him into beleiving that doing the wrong thing is actually the right thing in his eyes was the kicker, the justification for it all. Hence Mace was entirely wrong for his actions since it gave anakin the justifaction he needed to betray the jedi and get what he wanted. The errogance of mace thinking he had the right to judge life and death was the whole reason for the fall of the jedi.
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