Hello, you are not signed on. |
|
![[ Blogs.starwars.com ]](/static/skin/default/img/title_banners/site_banner.jpg "[ Blogs.starwars.com ]")     
|
 | When were the Death Stars built? |
 It's been a few days since my last post, but I have come up with another thingie to squash. It concerns the various versions of the Death Star. When I was flipping through the Art of Revenge of the Sith book I seemed to notice that in a production painting there were TWO Death Stars being built in the shipyard at the end of the movie. This can not be seen in the movie (you see the outline in the background of ONE Death Star being built).
Three questions rise from this:
1) The first DS took about twenty years to build, we all know that. Did Palps, however, plan to built a second bigger version of the first Death Star simultaneously? This would explain the question of it being virtually impossible for Palps to built another DS between the destruction of DS1 and the events of Return of the Jedi (although DS2 of course far from complete was at that time).
2) The plans for a DS obviously were in the hands of the Sith since the end of the Battle on Geonosis. In the webstrip Reversal of Fortune it is clearly said by Poggle the Lesser that the Separatists should hold out until their Great Weapon (read: DS) is complete. Did Dooku trick Poggle, Shu Mai and the others into starting the construction of DS1 (and maybe even DS2), so they would have a false sense of security, with the intent to kill them all off and finish the job themselves? (BTW. if you look at the DS's in AotC and RotS you can see that the plans are not the same as the finished product, just look at the size and position of the dish.)
3) Where is this shipyard we see at the end of Revenge of the Sith located? In the Jedi Academy trilogy it is told that Tarkin had something called the Maw Installation inside a cluster of black holes. This is where a prototype of a DS was found (one of many prototypes, maybe?) by our favorite heroes. In addition, DS2 was built in orbit of the Fourth Moon of Endor. If the second Death Star being constructed in the Art of Revenge painting was truly DS2, the work in progress had to have been moved to the site at Endor, or was it that the construction of DS1 was also performed in orbit of Endor. Phew! Where was it?
So, with that off of my mind I can now get some decent sleep.
GO SQUASH!
Edit: A lot of information on this topic can be found here: Star Wars Technical Commentaries.
|
 |
http://blogs.starwars.com/quins_blog/3 |
| |
The Chosen Nelvaan
Nelvaan's Galactic Database
|
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 1:40 AM
According to the EU it was made over a Pennal World (can't remember the full name, but I know it started with D) which was then destroyed by the DS after completion.
|
| |
Young Brad-o-wan
|
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 6:05 PM
Just because you see A Death Star being built at the end of EP III don't ASSUME[/b] it to be the same one in EPIV. It could have just been a pre-production, pre-prototype model.Don't you guys ever watch the Making of segments on the DVD'S? That's how everything in the Star Wars universe works both here and now AND then and there.
|
| |
TucsonCoyote
|
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 6:26 PM
Well, let's assume that it did take 20 years to build the first Death Star. I would imagine that there was all kinds of new technologies that went into it. Technologies that had to be developed, deployed, and then integrated into the Death Star project. Building the first of any new item (vehicle, structure, whatever) always takes longer than building subsequent ones. You do a lot of learning and figuring out how things go when building the first one. So I could see that the first DS took 20 years to finally complete, and that the second DS only took 3 years or so. Besides, who is to say that halfway through building the first DS, the Empire decided to start building a newer, bigger, more powerful DS?
|
| |
Darth Fearious
|
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 7:11 PM
AOTC was 22 years from ANH. So maybe it took 2 years for the prototype and another 20 for DS1. since it ROTJ was 4 years after ANH they could have started a while ago with DS2. So that's how long it probably took to build the DS's.
|
| |
Darth Beradius
|
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 8:27 PM
well i heard from somewhere (cant remeber where exactly) but it was the emperor's plan to build a large number of death stars and have them orbit Corusant to form the ultimate planetary defense. It could be posible that this is just one of many other death stars that were started but never completed or scraped due to costs. Im not sure. I think that the conection that lucas tryed to make with the death star to the new films can be described as sloppy and kinda thrown in at the last minute sort of thing.
|
| |
Darius, Lord Of The Sith
Thoughts From Darius
|
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 9:02 PM
I think that it is possible that DS2 was only started after DS1 was destroyed. We can say that it took in the range of 18 to 20 years to build DS1. If ROTJ is 4 years after ANH, then they would be 4 years into building DS2. I know it's weapons are operational, but just looking at it you can see it is far from actually being finished. If they were half way through, that's 8 years total, which would mean that they simply learned how to build it faster (especially considering that they would have the full resources of the Empire to do it).
|
| |
peterellard
|
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 10:40 PM
In ANH the Emperor got rid of the Senant, maybe the Imperial Senant still had some say over the Empire's resources and manpower and also the Emperor wanted to keep the DS a secret from them and the galaxy
Just think how much resources it would take to build one DS, and the workers and food to feed them all and ships. I know the first DS was built by prisoners but it would of had to be built by other workers, specialists, etc and when it was finished it crewed a million men
Any way after the first DS was made public and the Senant was wiped away the Emperor could put in all the resources of the Empire to quickly build the 2nd one and they would have the know how already to build it so in 4 years they could have 2/3s of the thing built.
|
| |
Jawa-powa
|
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 11:18 PM
I thought Geonosians were the ones contracted to build all these mechanical wonders.
ANH, comment by Motti- " This battle station is the ULTimate power in the universe..." Doesn't that say enough? DS1 was alone out there till it was blown. Not gettin into any 'canon' between movies and EU here..
The DS in ROTJ, may be engineered to be quite hollow when complete, comprised of only the necessary weaponry and of greater size as opening scroll stated. The completed shell to maintain it's threatening mass. There4 less time to build and still behind schedule.
The structure in ROTS IS the DS from ANH. Why would GL intend it to be any other?? That's what that scene was about, for us,....the spinechilling retrospect.
|
| |
A2-54E
|
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 11:23 PM
Remember that the Second Death Star is incomplete (as Darius says). The outer shell is still not complete which must mean that's its nowhere near finished. Think of it... When you build a house you start with the walls... Right? After that you continue to work on the inside. If you apply the same principle to the Second Death Star then it would be around half complete. "Then we will double our efforts". If they were working faster then when they built the original, then they could possibly be half build in 4 years. Maybe 4 years working on the Second Death Star could be equal to 8 years on the original.
|
| |
A2-54E
|
date Posted: Jul 27, 2005 11:24 PM
Plus the Original Death Star would have spent time after its completion testing everything before they went on a destroying spree. Saying all that I believe that the Second Death Star (as it is incomplete) could have been made in that space of time. Besides I'm a fan of the prototypes theory. They would have spent years making a prototype or at least fixing non-functional systems. Well that's all I have to say...
Good old George is just trying to save us from boredom.
|
| |
quin1974
Those gnawing little thingies...
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 12:11 AM
OK, let's say parts one and two of my original post have been answered. It was possible that Palps built another in the time between ANH and ROTJ, and the DS I saw in the painting was just another prototype (as was the other one at the end of ROTS). And the shipyard was at Despayre (I knew that, stupid me!!!) SQUASHED!
That leaves the other question:
2) Did Palps willingly deceive Poggle and his friends into starting the building of the DS, to save himself the costs of developing one himself?
|
| |
wedge3013
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 2:09 AM
This is in no way meant to diminish the great work that george lucas did on the the movies or any of his staff, but reading the books that are written after Return off the Jedi would have been helpful. The Death Stars were developed in the maw instute, which was put there by Tarkin. There Bevel Lemelisk lied to a group of researchers, including Qwi Xux, telling them that they were building a planet miner. So they desinged the blueprints for the death stars and tarkin took them and Bevel so that he could oversee the production of the death star.
|
| |
wedge3013
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 2:09 AM
Admiral Dala was put in charge of keeping the Maw Installation safe with the aid of 4 star destroyers, and the didn't have star destroyers back during Revenge of the Sith that they had during A New Hope. Oh, and the Original was meant to be kept in orbit around Coruscant, unless there was crisis, then the Death Star was meant to be moved to the place. It would be guarded by a fleet of star destroyers and other craft also. Two weeks after the original Death Star was destroyed, the Emperor executed Bevel, then brought him back to life and had him fix the design flaws in the Death Star, then started building the Second Death star. Had no idea where the original shipyard for the death star was, so thanks. Happy readings.
|
| |
icevitaman359
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 3:09 AM
For question #2, Poggle wants to hide the deathstar plans, so he erases them from his computers and gives Dooku a copy of them, so that in the future they may provide the seperatists with a great weaponry advantage. This is probably why Tyranus and Sidious formed a false alliance with the geonosians in the first place, since they could have found equivalent weapons' makers and army suppliers from countless other systems in the galaxy. They wanted great technological terrors for the new empire so they picked an arms dealer that could provide such weapons for their long term plan.
|
| |
icevitaman359
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 3:12 AM
After AOTC the geonosians work on deathstars right through to Return of the Jedi. The empire gets them to continue work on the deathstars in ROTS; whether by slave labour, intimidation, or just by standard contracts is not known. I say this because in the AOTC dvd George Lucas says how the geonosians built both deathstars, but he does not elaborate.
|
| |
icevitaman359
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 3:13 AM
The sith could have had non geonosians build the deathstars, but it is just a matter of convenince to have the bugs build what they know how to build instead of having new workers that do not know what they are doing. The main concern for the sith is time; they want these weapons built as fast as possible so that they can bring stability to the galaxy before any uprisings overwhelm the empire, as what happens in ROTJ. As for resource management (cost), it is a question of how much the empire wants to diversify their budget.
|
| |
icevitaman359
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 3:13 AM
By building deathstars they risk not putting as much resources into taking over and securing systems (empire maintanance). By focusing more on empire maintanance, deathstars will be built more slowly. Having Geonosians build the deathstars decreases cost, since they are more efficient than other workers supposedly. So the sith were wise in having the geonosians bulid the deathstars, for the fate of the galxay was at stake after all.
I heard somewhere (unkown) that the deathstar is actually an ancient sith weapon. The plans were long lost until the sith learned that the Geonosians had somehow recovered them. If anyone knows anything about this, please ...
|
| |
icevitaman359
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 3:27 AM
EU information is not accepted by icevitaman. The Maw installation, wookie slaves helping out, Kyle Katarns - these notions are all outdated since the release of the prequels and are therefore invalid.
|
| |
cocaingel1987
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 7:42 AM
The last time I checked, nothing made much sense in Star Wars anyway... so why not forget the technicalities of how long it takes to build a Death Star, and just accept that there WAS a Death Star, it was destroyed, and 4 years later there was another one in the works. It's not so difficult... lol
|
| |
Darthvegeta800000
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 7:51 AM
I read the EU things too. Like em. Accept them when i can but the DS events got really shaken like many other things by the prequels.
Like that construction of the DS Oo; in EpIII ending...
|
| |
UGAB_Lowbacca
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 8:03 AM
The prototype of DS is located at Coruscant, the New Republic took over it and destory it after ROTJ. And this prototype of DS is only a small spacestarion which has NO shell as I know, which is NOT the Death Star we saw they built.
P.S. I can't remember where I read about this, maybe I'll post a link here later if I can find it.
|
| |
boleenosroor3452
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 9:06 AM
Sigh.
Have any of you read Tales From the Mos Eisley Cantina? In the story "Hammertong" the Empire is guarding a piece needed for the Second Death Star's weapon system. This was around the time Luke left the Mos Eisley Cantina with Han (I could be wrong, though...). That means the Empire was starting construction on the Second Death Star before Obi-Wan died.
|
| |
SCRAPINFRAME
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 9:58 AM
we can rebuild it,......bigger faster,stronger.......obviously the weapons system was of the first priority for ds2.so i would say since its about half done,based on shape,and being able to build it quicker than the first with all hands on deck,i'm sure if it wasn't blown up, that it would have been done in about 9-10 years
|
| |
ig88123456
God of starwars
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 11:21 AM
the 2nd DS was bult in the Endor system.
|
| |
Jedi Master Diogo
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 11:36 AM
Yeah but how long did it take to make her, was sehe in construction during ESB??
|
| |
SCRAPINFRAME
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 1:36 PM
i have worn out my vhs and dvd players,i have never seen contruction of ds2 in ESB??
|
| |
kesseljunkie
Kessel Korner
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 2:43 PM
I agree with the thought that as a new technology is launched and developed, a newer version of it arises much more quickly.
I think it's safe to presume, since they were working to get the prime weapon running, they focused more effort on the superlaser. That way, it was ready to fire with a minimum staff on board. The DS2 has the core is completed, at the expense of the shell.
Or, if you want to go all EU on it, the one we see in Sith is the one that ends up at Maw Installation and the one we see in ANH is actually the second iteration.
I see no continuity error any which way I look at it.
|
| |
darthcarth
Join the Nail Side of the Thumb!
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 5:24 PM
What if the Death Star we saw at the end of Sith was in fact the prototype. They could have done that one first just make sure that it works and work out the flaws (except for the thermal exhaust port of course), then build another one around maybe 10 years before A New Hope, which would explain why Tarkin and his advisors say that they just finished building it in the beginning of the movie, and why it only took around 4 years to make a second one.
|
| |
ithekro
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 6:56 PM
An interesting concept is the idea that the Empire runs on fear of force rather then force itself. But the Empire also seems to work by giving those in charge huge command platforms. The standard ship to cow a whole system is the Star Destroyer as we know them. Sector Command ships would be Super Star Destroyers like Lord Vader's ship. Oversector, or Priotity Sectors, under Grand Moffs like Tarkin, would have Death Stars as Command ships. Or perhaps the Emperor was building one as a test for Tarkin, and the second for himself.
|
| |
ithekro
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 6:56 PM
But if the earlier is true, then after the first production Death Star is finished, other will be built as quickly as possible, either with them being bigger, or needing to be bigger to reflect the weapons targeting upgrade and flaw removal, and other upgrades noted from use of the first Death Star....or just one being bigger so that the Emporer would have the biggest tool in case his Grand Moffs took designs on his throne.
|
| |
jedihooplah
A whole bunch of hooplah.
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 6:57 PM
Think of it... When you build a house you start with the walls... Right? After that you continue to work on the inside. If you apply the same principle to the Second Death Star then it would be around half complete. "Then we will double our efforts". If they were working faster then when they built the original, then they could possibly be half build in 4 years. Maybe 4 years working on the Second Death Star could be equal to 8 years on the original.
I think that at the end of RotS we see the first DS, not a prototype. It can't be b/c "you will build something faster the second time." I mean that one looked partially done but still had a whiles work on it. The one we see in ANH is definatly the first production model.
|
| |
jedihooplah
A whole bunch of hooplah.
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 6:57 PM
That leaves the other question:
2) Did Palps willingly deceive Poggle and his friends into starting the building of the DS, to save himself the costs of developing one himself?
As for this that sounds exactly like something Palpatine would do. Also keep in mind. Poogle gave Dooku a copy of the plans. Dooku is also Tyranus and Tyranus is Sidious' apprentice. So Palpatine has pretty much had controle of the plans and labor since conception. Maybe not direct control but definatly control.
|
| |
jedihooplah
A whole bunch of hooplah.
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 6:58 PM
EU information is not accepted by icevitaman. The Maw installation, wookie slaves helping out, Kyle Katarns - these notions are all outdated since the release of the prequels and are therefore invalid.
And as for this #### #### (self censorship.) What are you talking about. If its licencened by Lucas it is Star Wars. If it says in the game that Kyle Katarn got the plans, then he got the plans. That's just how it is!!!!
Somebody please wake this guy up to the EU!
|
| |
mytuk03
The Balance of the Force
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 7:35 PM
I was pretty sure lucas said that and yhitng EU is not part of his vision, so he said there are many good ideas and can be believed by the fans, but it has nothing to do with the movies, and he himself could contradict these things, cause they are not part of his visoin, so for movie sake, kyle katarn has nothing to do with the movies
|
| |
rebeltrooper94
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 7:38 PM
One factor that might have slowed the construction of the DS1 is cost. Remember, a major galaxy-spanning war just ended during RotS. The Empire was most likely facing a huge war debt. Palpatine may simply not have had the money to through into the construction of the DS1.
|
| |
gpudh
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 8:11 PM
On the Poggle issue: of course Palpatine planned to take the Death Star plans from the bugs. He could foresee what would happen, so the entire battle of Genoious was an excuse to get the plans and bring the clones out (whose creation he set up).
|
| |
gpudh
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 8:12 PM
Time it took to build the first Death Star, I read some where an idea that the final scene of the building of DS1 may not take place directly after Darth Vader gets off the operating table. Because the bridge and crew (not clones in armor like in ROTS battles)of the ship they are on is similar to the Star Destroyers from IV-VI it could be happening many years after the end of the film.
Another reason the building of DS1 took so long may have been that the bugs were out of the picture. Remember Palpatine is a bit xenophobic and would not want aliens in the final planning stage of his ultimate weapon.
|
| |
gpudh
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 8:13 PM
I think the second Death Star could definately be built in the time between ANH and ROTJ. I would argue that DS2 was not just incomplete, but maybe even smaller than DS1. The dish gun did not have the kick of the original. It only took out a capital ship. Also we only see one side of the incomplete shell of DS2 in the movie from the matte paintings and models that were shot for the film. It may be that the entire back side of the thing is incomplete making the need for the protection of the Endor shield generator even more important.
|
| |
wedge3013
|
date Posted: Jul 28, 2005 10:22 PM
There was a protype built, but it was only meant to show the Emperor what the Death Star would look like when it was built to correct scale. The first Death Star construction was started in secret many years after Revenge of the SIth. The emperor didn't need the entire senate to approve the use of many supplies. The emperor was going to get rid of the senate no matter what and replace them with his moffs. The moffs were going to be picked form different professions; military, rulers, and other close loyal people. So the rulers sent small shippments of supplies to the construction site to be used. The reason the second death star was built faster was that it was not built in secertive. Happy readings.
|
| |
furry10191
|
date Posted: Jul 29, 2005 7:00 AM
Well i think that, the rise of the death star1, thats when they starting builiding 2, b/c u dont know how long the death stars have been being built.
|
| |
Bladeofevilsbane
|
date Posted: Jul 29, 2005 10:09 AM
If we asume the one at the end of ROTJ is a prototype, then we have no problems!
it's hard to believe that the empire would just build the DS1 without having any tests, and I mean they couldn't really build anything while the republic was still around. The second DS was more powerful that the first, and could ration it's laser's power yield so it could blow up capital ships without overkill.
|
| |
Bladeofevilsbane
|
date Posted: Jul 29, 2005 10:09 AM
Think also, palps was in no rush to complete DS1 he thought everything was a-ok. When the rebels destroyed it, he probably had the second one built faster. Also also, when Tarkin reports that DS1 is complete in ANH, no shipyard is visible, so it's possible they were running many tests after construction..Where as DS2 wasn't even finished construction at the time of it's demise.
|
| |
Monitor Supreme
|
date Posted: Jul 30, 2005 4:57 AM
At the end of Episode 3 when we see Vader, Sidious and Tarkin looking at the Death Star prototype, perhaps Sidious wasthere to give Tarkin his approval for the project. Upon getting the go-ahead, Tarkin returns to the shipyard and work is begun on the DS1. Pehaps after two or three years into the construction, Tarkin works on the success of the original and starts work on a bigger and better DS2.
|
| |
clone trooper 502
|
date Posted: Jul 30, 2005 10:21 AM
The first Death Star was built in a couple of years. Then when it gets destroyed they got to work on the second Death Star. 
|
| |
TheDarkLordR2-D5
|
date Posted: Jul 30, 2005 11:33 AM
I don't beleive that both Death Stars were constructed at the same time. Theres a lot of speculation that could form about this. We all know that Lord Sidious could use the power of ''forsight'' to see into the future through the force. I beleive that possibly, maybe sometime before the Death Stars completion, he forsaw the destruction of the Death Star and maybe even considered Tarkin a future threat, so he allowed it to be blown up with Tarkin on it. So when he foresaw the destruction he ordered construction of another one, one that he would command himself so as not to give any of his subordinates any ideas about over throwing him.
|
| |
TheDarkLordR2-D5
|
date Posted: Jul 30, 2005 11:37 AM
And then everyone would say ''how is it possible to build something 1/3 larger in half the time?'' Well, you've got to remember, it wasn't completely finished, only about 2/3.(off-subject, but i think it was finished, just the Empire wanted the rebellion to think it vulnerable to lure them to attack it. Why i think it was finished is because he says ''Now witness the firepower of this FULLY armed and operational battlestation.'') Also, the Emporer could have influenced the minds of the workers to create it faster and more efficiently, as we see in the Expanded Universe in the Thrawn Trilogy. Master Joruus C'Baoth uses the force to make the Imperial fleet fight more efficiently.
|
| |
super clone dude
|
date Posted: Jul 30, 2005 1:08 PM
nice comment very thoughtful, but in ep 6 there a hugething about the ds not being complete(the part at the begining) so they couldnt be tricking the rebilion into thinking it wasnt complete but obviously at the end the ds was shooting its laser at the rebilions ships so maybe they completed the weaponry but not the oter armor.think about it.
|
| |
TheDarkLordR2-D5
|
date Posted: Jul 30, 2005 2:13 PM
Yes but there could also be the possibility that the Emporer thought some of his people might defect to the rebellion, so he might not have told most of the workers and only his top or executive workers, that it was actually complete.
|
| |
TheDarkLordR2-D5
|
date Posted: Jul 30, 2005 3:42 PM
As for the post up yonder One factor that might have slowed the construction of the DS1 is cost... You have got to remember, for the DS1 they were coming out of a war, for DS2 they were in a war. So I think that rules that out.
|
- Please log in to post comments
|
|
 |
