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 | You Go to War With the Jedi You Have |
 The average Padawan wasn't taught that killing other beings was the best way to solve problems. Clearly, negotiation and reason are the first option during the days of the "civilized" Republic. In TPM, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are sent as the Chancellor's "ambassadors" to the Trade Federation, not as a police or military force- to discussl a removal of the blockade.
In AOTC, Mace Windu states firmly that the Jedi are " not soldiers ". What else can he mean by this than that Jedi are different? They don't do what soldiers do. And what do soldiers do? They use the tools, equipment, and abilities they have to accomplish their missions, usually in a violent way. Then they rationalize that any collateral damage is an unfortunate, but necessary part of the process- the classic "end justifying the means" philosophy.
But in contrast we have the Jedi. A warrior priesthood who avoids the fight. Beings who are potentially incredibly powerful, through the Force, but who allow themselves its use strictly for "knowledge and defence, never for attack".
What if the Jedi were more aggressive than passive? Would this have been wrong? It certainly would have violated the Code. I can hear you, fellow bloggers. "That leads to the Dark Side!" you say. "It's not the Jedi Way!" you exclaim. I know, I know.
But think about this. If the Jedi had not become so complacent, so inward and passive, would the Sith ever been able to gather enough power to become a threat? If they had been more proactive, could disaster have been avoided?
If Anakin had obeyed "orders", and not been there to stop Windu from killing Sidious, would the Chosen One have turned to the Dark Side? Or would the Sith threat have been ended? Of course we'll never know...
In the climax of the series, we have Luke Skywalker, the last of the old Jedi and first of the new, victorious by being traditional- that is, passive. He is a "Jedi, like his father before him", standing before the Sith Lord defenseless, a champion of the Light. Wonderful! All is well!
But how many millions of beings would have had a better life (or stayed alive) had the Jedi been different ?
I guess we wouldn't have had six great films and an incredible GFFA to explore, huh?
I eagerly await your comments.
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http://blogs.starwars.com/ral_kleest1/1 |
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Chris2OneBee
The Living and Breathing Blog of Chris2OneBee
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 2:30 PM
If the Jedi were going to have a chance against the Sith, I believe they needed to stay neutral, to not get involved in the war. Especially now that they knew an Army of the Republic had been created behind their backs. It should've been obvious that a much, much bigger hand was at work, and in order to stay that hand, they needed to be above the distraction that the Clone War became. Or, Mace should kill Dooku at the start, by any means necessary. But really...the best chance the Jedi have is to allow Anakin to die in that arena. If he does, Sidious has no card to play against them except himself--and even he's got limits. Sooner or later, he'd have been ferreted out and dealt with. Speculation...
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orcrist611
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 2:30 PM
If the Jedi were more agressive and attacked the Sith, they would have become what they had fought.
If Anakin had obeyed "orders", and not been there to stop Windu from killing Sidious, would the Chosen One have turned to the Dark Side? A. Anakin did what you said, be agressive. if he was more passive he would have obeyed orders B. Palps was just playing with Mace. The only reason he went easy was because he wanted to turn Anakin when Anakin found Mace apparantly "winning".
Good points though  excellent blog
May the Force be with you and May the Valar protect you
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orcrist611
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 2:34 PM
Sidious has no card to play against them except himself--and even he's got limits.
HE BEAT YODA!!!! how can he have limits if he beat the greatest jedi of our age. Really, Would mace have a chance against yoda. No. Would, then, mace have a chance against palps. No.
I believe they needed to stay neutral, to not get involved in the war. It should've been obvious that a much, much bigger hand was at work, and in order to stay that hand, they needed to be above the distraction that the Clone War became.
this happened during the Mandalorian Wars and as a result, the Jedi were almost wiped out and the Republic almost collapsed. (I know im refuting my own argument  ) W/e
(see first comment)
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darth maul517
Darth Jedi Maul Secura
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 4:33 PM
Interesting. Very interesting. Let me say I somewhat agree. They could have been a little more forward. But I think a big problem was there ignorance. They thought they were right end of story. Not true. I never was to crazy about the Jedi Code. I also believe though that the Jedi were dumb when it came to war. That is all I am going to say.
WONDERFUL BOG. GREAT THOUGHTS. CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR MORE FROM YOU.
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DevlenPiett
Star Wars Historical Forum
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 6:03 PM
In AOTC the Jedi seem to take to the new job as Generals like a duck takes to water. When Yoda brings the army to Geonosis he does not consult with the other Jedi or go over a battle plan. The other Jedi just seem to know what to do instinctively taking units of troops and leading them to victory.
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JediCody87
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 6:31 PM
wow good blog,ive kinda wondered the same thing,but i dont know,if the jedi were that way then there would probally only be 3 films all together...so i dont know....
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cbern
Omega Squad's 5th member
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 6:46 PM
What if the Jedi were more aggressive than passive
Then you would have the Sith.
Great first entry, loved reading it, welcome aboard! Write more soon!
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jkthunder
Seven Pieces
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 7:11 PM
The Clone Wars came and went rather quickly, and really the major casualties we really see were the Jedi and some of the clones. But supposedly, the war with the seperatists caused a lot too. The seperatist conflicts were really used by the Sith to lure the Jedi into fighting, and into going against what they really are - peaceful. By giving and and fighting, the Jedi proved their true way (of peace) was probably the right path. But did they have a choice? They selflessly went to war. It seems to show that fighting aggression with aggression is where the lives are lost. Fighting the dark side with dark side-like means.
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jkthunder
Seven Pieces
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 7:13 PM
Maybe if the Jedi never fought back, they would have been destroyed anyway, since that was the goal of the Sith... even though the Jedi didn't really know that's what the war was about until it was too late. Would all those who died in the seperatisrt conflicts not have died if the Jedi didn't pick up arms? Hard to say - maybe the Sith would have kept on killing until the Jedi finally fought. Like you said, we'll never know the "what if".
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ral_kleest
The Jedi Way: Preserving the Light
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 7:29 PM
Thanks to all! LONG time reader, just now getting into the writing.
Chris2OneBee - Neutrality... an option I hadn't considered- interesting!
orcrist611 & cbern - If we use the word assertive instead of aggressive, does that cross the line for you? Would the Jedi have become Sith at that point, or no?
darth maul517 - I like your term forward. Also the thought that they thought they were right, but they were actually ignorant. I definitely think they were blinded.
DevlenPiett - An excellent point! When thrust into battle, they performed admirably! I want to think about that more...
JediCody87 - thanks! glad we had 6, and looking forward to the TV series!
MTFBWY
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ral_kleest
The Jedi Way: Preserving the Light
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 7:37 PM
But did they have a choice? They selflessly went to war. It seems to show that fighting aggression with aggression is where the lives are lost. Fighting the dark side with dark side-like means.
Is it aggression at this point, jk, or defense? As you say, there is no choice really. Sidious manipulated both sides of the war, and the Jedi find themselves in the middle. Were they surrendering to the dark side just by fighting? Or can the Light fight as well?
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SnoopDarthyDarth
Sith point of view related to real world...
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date Posted: Nov 14, 2006 10:42 PM
The Jedi could have taken a bigger stance and stopped the war if they could truely 'see the future' but, they couldnt 'see' the future.
"Always emotion is the future."
Yoda was wise but, noone saw and only one planned and predicted what would happen in the years to come.
Unfortunatly the 'one' was Palpatine... and Palps was only one miscalculation (Luke's fortitude) away from ruling the galaxy for another 40, 80, 100 years before the next true Jedi threat arose to challenge him.
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jedivan2
Jedivan's Viewpoint
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date Posted: Nov 16, 2006 5:07 PM
In AOTC, Mace Windu states firmly that the Jedi are "not soldiers".
On a related note, Obi-Wan tells Luke in ANH that the Jedi "were the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy". Ral_kleest, your analysis is correct to a certain extent. In one sense, they were like police officers. However, in the book Labrynth of Evil, Yoda seems to disagree with both Mace and Obi-Wan when he tells Obi-Wan, "Nonsense, warriors always have we been." However, notice the term he uses: "warrior", not "soldier". (continued)
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jedivan2
Jedivan's Viewpoint
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date Posted: Nov 16, 2006 5:07 PM
Soldiers are a type of warrior, but not all warriors are soldiers. Jedi are, to a certain extent I believe a warrior like the Knights Templar of the Crusades and the Samaurai of medieval Japan. (The samaurai were the main inspiration for the Jedi, according to George Lucas.) Each of the three groups has a code of conduct or honor that adherents live by. Each group was organized to protect others. The Knights Templar originally were created to protect pilgrims on their way to Jerusalem. The Samaurai protected their feudal lord and his subjects. So, too the Jedi were protectors of the Republic. (continued)
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jedivan2
Jedivan's Viewpoint
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date Posted: Nov 16, 2006 5:09 PM
While soldiers do ususally have a code of conduct and do protect their country, they only do so in times of war. I believe "warriors", however, do more than fight battles on a battlefield of war. I believe a true warrior fights battles anywhere he/she is needed, no matter how small or how big. This is where the "guardians of peace and justice" come into play. Sometimes the battle might be just settling a dispute between two sides, as Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were sent to do at Naboo, as Obi-Wan, Anakin, Luminara, and Barriss did on Ansion in The Approaching Storm, and as Luke did in a bar in Heir to the Empire. Soldiers don't mediate disputes, they only fight wars. Warriors, I believe, do both.
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Renari Valor
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date Posted: Nov 18, 2006 6:29 PM
Let us examine how the Sith are believed to have arisen in the first place: a hyper aggressive Jedi padawan (much like Anikan) discovers the power of the force when used as a tool for channeling hatred and rage.
As a result of this, we can clearly arrive at the conclusion that had the Jedi been more aggressive they would have inevitably become Sith. I realize that this has been stated many times before, but as is said in Ep. III:"the Jedi and the Sith are alike in almost every way". No coincidence.
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Fish1941
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date Posted: Nov 28, 2006 7:51 AM
Perhaps the Jedi and the Sith were too extreme in how they had approached this topic and every other aspect of the Force. Perhaps that is why both needed to be destroyed . . . the Jedi in the PT and the Sith in the OT.
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ral_kleest
The Jedi Way: Preserving the Light
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date Posted: Nov 29, 2006 6:06 AM
Thought I had responded to these earlier, but I guess not! 
The Jedi could have taken a bigger stance and stopped the war if they could truely 'see the future' but, they couldnt 'see' the future.
True, but if they had been more proactive, the future might have been very different.
Soldiers don't mediate disputes, they only fight wars. Warriors, I believe, do both.
An interesting view. Jedi are warriors, I like it!
Perhaps the Jedi and the Sith were too extreme in how they had approached this topic and every other aspect of the Force.
That is very much in keeping with the concept of "balance" - excellent point!
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