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A Rebel's Ramblings
by: FAN4YRS
date posted: Oct 23, 2006 7:24 AM  | 
updated: Jun 22, 2007 7:39 PM
Darth Vader Wasn't So Great
First, credit where credit is due, to Tar_Ranth for his great blog "Lightsabres--How Did Luke Build One?" (see it at blogs.starwars.com/hunterspride/5).

On that blog I mentioned that I never thought it was such an advanced skill for a Jedi to know how to construct a lightsaber. For years when I have heard Vader say: "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber...indeed, you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen." That this was just merely a sign of how little training Anakin had received, or how far he had to go. Perhaps this was his own doing. As a child and young adult, Anakin, as we have seen in the Prequels, didn't listen very well to Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan. Even when he did, he seemed to twist their meaning (as earler as TPM when Anakin says to Artoo "Qui-Gon told me to stay RIGHT HERE and that's what I'm gonna do", as the ship he was in was taking off).

However, I think blame must also be placed on Palpatine. After Anakin's "death" and Vader's "birth" Palpatine wanted Vader to be a figurehead of the Sith's power, but HE--as the Emperor--wanted ultimate, unlimited power. Therefore, whatever Dark Side/Sith skills he might have given Vader, they paled in comparison to his own.

So, if that's the case, some of you are asking, why was Vader such a big deal? Why was he such a threat to Leia, Han, and the others? The same way a snake is a threat when a lion isn't around. Vader, to most people, was the only game in town. There were no more Jedi. Vader existed on the myth of previous Jedi and Sith and those memories of what others in the past could do haunted the galactic citizens and kept them in line.

In "Jedi" Palpatine says to Luke: "Young fool, only NOW, at the END do you understand" and then zaps him with Force lightning. Could he have been talking to the budding good in Vader/Anakin as well?

Think about it, whenever Darth Vader sensed anger or hatred in Luke he felt power, but Luke was the most powerful when he didn't use his anger or hatred, but his love. His love prevented him from fighting his father and even his father's evil master (because evil or not, Palpatine was the only stability Vader knew for the last twenty years).

Perhaps the Emperor was saying to Vader: "Young fool, only now, at the end do you see that love is the most powerful." "Young fool", becuase Palpatine thought it was surely too late for Luke. His father would not turn and Luke's sacrifice would be in vain.

But Luke didn't die. He took much more than Mace, or anyone else that had a jolt of Force lightning (Yoda kept it back, but Luke actually took it in) and survived. This is why I believe Luke IS the strongest of all Jedi. His father, Anakin Skywalker locked inside the Darth Vader carcass, could stand no more, and destroyed the Emperor, the embodient of hate, predjuice, and evil, to save his son, who, towards Anakin, was nothing but love.


"Vader doesn't want you at all, he's after someone called Skywalker"
--Lando Calrissian

Indeed, he was after someone called Skywalker, he was always hoping to find Anakin Skywalker again.

  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 7:33 AM
Indeed, he was after someone called Skywalker, he was always hoping to find Anakin Skywalker again.
Interesting twist.
amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 7:36 AM
Excellent entry, FAN4YRS. Palpatine never really got it, never really thought that good would defeat evil. Luke got it right from the start; love conquers all. And Anakin spent almost his entire life pulled by forces on both sides, right and wrong, good and bad, light and dark. Anakin was needed to bridge the gap between dark and light. He had to hold onto Palps' hand on one side and Luke's (or his memories of Padme to that point) on the other...until Anakin was strong enough, sure enough, to let go of the Dark.

Hey, maybe I should blog about that? ?:|
The Stooge
Star Wars Joke-A-Day
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 7:45 AM
I do like the idea that Palpy held stuff back from Vader. Heck, maybe it was some Sith exercise... as in, "if you can't figure some stuff out on your own, then you're not worthy to be a Darth! Now go mow the lawn!"

Or maybe it's some sort of Sith Law of Diminishing Returns: each Darth kept some tricks hidden from his/her apprentice, so that as the generations went on, they got weaker and weaker... until they had to enter politics to get anything done. ;)
FAN4YRS
A Rebel's Ramblings
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 7:52 AM
Teehee. : )

Thanks, Stooge!

Yeah, amidalooine, I would love for you to blog about it, we can have an unofficial blog ring with Tar_Ranth!
  glyphrunner
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 7:55 AM
If you check out "Bloodlines" by Karen Traviss, you'll see a spot in there where Lumiya is telling Jacen that she could never be a full Sith Lord because she's had too much of her body replaced by cybernetics because of injuries. This would be the same for Vader, since only portions of his torso and his head are all that remain of his connection to the Force. In fact, I believe this is also addressed slightly in "Dark Lord: Rise of Vader." As for Palp keeping things back from Vader, of course! Look at "Darth Bane" and you'll see the practice that came about of the Rule of Two. This keeps the apprentice wanting.
hansgirl3
Invoking the Squee
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 10:24 AM
Good one, Fan4Years!

You may be on to something here! Luke definitely took more of the lightning and hid love certainly gave him strength. Even Yoda told him that the dark side wasn't stronger, but that it was only quicker and easier to fall into.

By George, I think you've got it! ;)

:D
padmeskywalker77
Padme's Legacy
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 11:21 AM
Wonderful entry, FAN4YRS!! I think you got the "mechanisms" in my brain working, too. I also feel a blog entry coming on ;)

Indeed, he was after someone called Skywalker, he was always hoping to find Anakin Skywalker again.

Absolutely love this line. I truly think you are on to something here :)
  vadersgirl33
vadersgirl_reflections
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 11:32 AM
Some very deep thoughts on Vader. You raise some interesting points. Vader relied on the Emperor for everything. He became too dependent on him. I love the line 'he was always hoping to find Anakin Skywalker again'. So true, I think! You come up with some very good blogs!!:D

vadersgirl33
  Oboe-Wan
Oboe-Wan's Hive of Scum & Villainy
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 11:39 AM
Luke's love was way more powerful, but love is so much harder to achieve than hate. Hate is quick & passionate, you have to actually fight for love, earn it, nourish it. Luke was able to do that, Anakin not so much. Anakin was quick to blame Obi-Wan, the council, anyone he could think of when things didn't go his way. Luke took a bad situation (being cornered by Vader in ROTJ duel) & turned it around so it was about love & not about hate.

I try to practice this in my own life, but it's not easy. Not by a long shot. Luke is a great role-model for practicing loving kindness.
  Oboe-Wan
Oboe-Wan's Hive of Scum & Villainy
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 11:41 AM
As for the building of the lightsaber... I thought that by building one on your own w/o help signified the end of your Jedi training, the culmination of all your Jedi skills. Vader may be impressed that Luke built a lightsaber already since he's only been training for a fraction of the time Anakin did and already is a powerful Jedi.

Great blog. Good thoughts on this subject, btw!! I always enjoy your blogs!
  jkelly
There Is No Conflict
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 11:56 AM
I used to think Luke took more lightning abuse simply because the Emperor was toying with him before killing him. I don't know about the EU, but we don't ever see someone die from force-lightning (alhtough it can knock you out of a high-rise).

I also used to think that Luke's construction of a new lightsaber made him powerful because DV thought that no one was around to teach him how to do it.

I haven't changed my mind yet, but ...
FAN4YRS
A Rebel's Ramblings
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 12:01 PM
The way the Emperor seemed surprised that Luke wasn't dead has always made me think that he struck to kill. Again, Yoda pushed back and Mace died, but what do I know?
  Pablo Wan
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 12:42 PM
This is why I believe Luke IS the strongest of all Jedi.

So do I, even if there are more charming characters around (Luke lovers, forgive me).
I used to think that the Dark Side makes you become strong faster, but It has a lower limit than the "Light side", so even if It took so long to become strong, you got the chance to achieve more knoledge and more power.

Great entry FAN4YRS!

"La Fuerza estará contigo...siempre"
viagoangel2
Were Anakin and Padme' really one?
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 1:08 PM
"Young fool, only now, at the end do you see that love is the most powerful." Well, well, well...what do we have here? Nice! This makes me think of Mustafar, with Padme' and Anakin. Her telling him that all she wants is his love, and him responding that love won't save her, only his new powers can. Right then and there, Palps already had Anakin brain washed. Purposely, because his LOVE for her was stronger than any other power the force had to offer. For if it weren't, Love would have conquered in the end between Father and son. ;) (cont)
viagoangel2
Were Anakin and Padme' really one?
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 1:19 PM
Indeed, he was after someone called Skywalker, he was always hoping to find Anakin Skywalker again. Truly, after Luke's true identity was revealed, it seemed as though Anakin really wanted to find his place within the force once again. For, there is no doubt that memories of Padme' and what once was began flooding his mind again. It had to be painful, sad, and yet in a way; relieving. For all his life, he did nothing but HIDE. Emotionally and physically. He could never proudly talk about his Mother around the other padawans, he was different as it was. Then Padme', for his relationship with her was forbidden. Saving his son, gave him back his dignity and placed him rightfully amongst his Masters. Great Blog!
viagoangel2
Were Anakin and Padme' really one?
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 1:21 PM
Love would have conquered in the end between Father and son. (cont) I meant WOULDN'T not WOULD....sorry, my bad.;)
  darthpateo
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 1:26 PM
Indeed, he was after someone called Skywalker, he was always hoping to find Anakin Skywalker again. this is an awesome quote. what lando said defintely could have had a double meaning. idk know about the other quote about love, but this quote is pretty genious.
amidalooine
The Emotional Galaxy
date Posted: Oct 23, 2006 6:05 PM
FAN4YRS...I did, indeed, write that blog entry that I got the idea for this morning. Just thought I'd let you know! And thank you!
  Rogueish
W.I.E.R.D.
date Posted: Oct 24, 2006 2:32 AM
Awesome blog. It reminds me of the tagline for Dracula: Love Never Dies, for some reason.

Going back to the subject of lightsabers, there are contradictions to the building of them. In Jedi Academy (yes I know, it's only a game, but still..) the hero you play has done something that is unheard of - building a saber with no training, but it implies that because of that he's so strong in the Force.

Then again, in the ROTJ novelisation, Luke constructs his saber in Kenobi's hut, following instructions. Is it really that easy? Well, I've always believed that Luke is the strongest Jedi ever, and even following instructions, having the knowledge to tap into the Force to align the crystals must mean you are indeed powerful.
  Dark-Jedi25
Hard to see, the dark side is
date Posted: Oct 24, 2006 9:04 AM
I think that Vader/Anakin kind of gets a bad rap on his abilities. Most of the battles we see him in in the movies are the few that he lost. I think that by and large, Anakin typically won every battle that he entered into. in the movies, he lost to Dooku, Luke, and Obi-Wan. Also he won against Dooku and Obi-Wan.

This gives the appearance that he has a saber-battle record of 2 wins and 3 losses. In actuality, it was probably more like 1002 wins and 3 losses.

I am sure that when he attacked the temple, he faced more than just padawans and younglings. Yes, Windu and Yoda were both gone, but I am sure that there was at least one Jedi Master present during Vader's slaughtering of the Jedi.
  Dark-Jedi25
Hard to see, the dark side is
date Posted: Oct 24, 2006 9:05 AM
in the movies, he lost to Dooku, Luke, and Obi-Wan. Also he won against Dooku and Obi-Wan.

Also, he won against Dooku and Luke.
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