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A Rebel's Ramblings

by: FAN4YRS

date posted: Jun 28, 2007 4:53 PM | updated: Jun 28, 2007 7:03 PM

Vader's Offer

"...With our combined strength we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy"
--Vader to Luke in "The Empire Strikes Back"

I don't know how many times I repeated that scene as a kid in play and just to impress my friends with my white-boy James Earl Jones impression. I never got the full meaning until literally seconds ago.

Obviously, the statement appealed to Luke; he wanted to see the conflict between the Rebellion and the Empire resolved and have peace restored to the galaxy, but he didn't want it Vader's way. End of story? That's what I thought for the last 27 years.

Think back just two years ago (or two hours ago, depending on the last time you watched "Revenge of the Sith") what did the Emperor tell Anakin when he was recently converted to the Dark Side? He said that as long as the Jedi were alive there would be "Civil War without end". He said something that typically the good say about the evil: "The Jedi are relentless."

Vader's offer wasn't coming from Anakin's heart, it wasn't to "rule the galaxy as father and son", it was simply an offer to crush the good inside of Luke and turn him into DV, Jr.

When you watch the movies it is clear that Vader believes Obi-Wan was Luke's only teacher. Apparently he believed Yoda was killed 20 years ago (in the JEDI novel Palpatine is relieved to discover Yoda is dead). Anyway, Vader believes Luke is the last Jedi, therefore, if he is turned it is not only to have a strong new member of the Dark Side, but it insures the fire has gone out of the Light (because, of course, he didn't know about Leia either).

You probably like, "Whatever I knew all dat", but it comes as quite a revelation to me.

A note about the photo I used: This website doesn't have a photo of Luke and Vader dueling. Please help.

http://blogs.starwars.com/rebel-ramblings1977-1983/169

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	darth maul517 Darth Jedi Maul Secura
date Posted: Jun 28, 2007 6:54 PM You make a good point. It is funny. Darth Vader said almost the same thing to Padme, but she, like her son, refused. They were so much alike. From what I know is that the only picture of the two dueling is in lego form.

	leia19886 Someone get this big walking carpet out of my way ...
date Posted: Jun 28, 2007 7:40 PM IMO: Vader's offer to Luke was made out of Vader's need to be in total control. His need to have ultimate power over the galaxey. Believing Obi-Wan was the only Jedi to survive the purdge at the temple was I think also part of Vader's downfall. Nice entry. Leia

	FAN4YRS A Rebel's Ramblings
date Posted: Jun 28, 2007 7:47 PM I certainly think that was part of it.

	Darth_Hiram A Journey into The Force
date Posted: Jun 28, 2007 8:11 PM Good entry. I think Vader was also thinking that he could overthrow Sidious, as all Sith apprentices eventually do. He had fantasies of running the galaxy the way he wanted to, with his son. As already said, he tried it with Padme, and now would try it with Luke.

	The Stooge Star Wars Joke-A-Day
date Posted: Jun 28, 2007 8:36 PM Hey, that was a revelation to me, too! Good insight -- I never connected the Palpy scene in ROTS to the Vader dialogue from ROTJ like that before.

	FAN4YRS A Rebel's Ramblings
date Posted: Jun 28, 2007 8:59 PM Actually, it's "Empire", but, what the hay, it's late!

	Rainbow Droideka Aren't you a little short for an egg?
date Posted: Jun 29, 2007 3:45 AM I'm not entirely sure I get it.... Are you saying that Vader wanted to crush the Jedi side of Luke because Palpy had him convinced that Jedi were what was wrong with the galaxy?

	Lord Harald The Council of Evil
date Posted: Jun 29, 2007 3:45 AM This website doesn't have a photo of Luke and Vader dueling. It should also have a lot of those fancy paintings.

FAN4YRS
A Rebel's Ramblings

date Posted: Jun 29, 2007 4:11 AM

I thought I was getting a little muddled in what I was trying to say.

My point is that Vader wasn't so much looking for a Dark Apprentice, but seeking to insure that the Jedi were truly gone. I think that was the Emperor's main purpose in turning him. If there were no more Jedi there would be no more conflict. Perhaps that's what Vader meant in "Jedi" when he said: "There is no conflict", maybe he was arrogantly sure that Luke would turn.

Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal

date Posted: Jun 29, 2007 7:08 AM

When you watch the movies it is clear that Vader believes Obi-Wan was Luke's only teacher.

Within Vader's comments, I've always heard an amalgam of regret, jealousy, and anger. Anakin cared for Obi-Wan, I don't think that can be denied even after their initial duel. He was his teacher too after all. Anakin also knew that Kenobi bested him...twice (even Vader can't deny that Kenobi's death was of his own choosing)! And now you have Kenobi coming back to haunt him via his own son. Kenobi just doesn't quit. Just like Scrooge, the ghosts of Ani's past cannot be eluded. Perhaps in some ways, Ani's reunion with Luke was also a reconciliation with his former master.

Captain Peabody

date Posted: Jun 29, 2007 7:37 AM

I guess Vader, by this time, had gotten quite paranoid; with the prompting of Palpatine he had come to believe that all his troubles were caused and instigated by the Jedi, that the Rebellion was simply a smokescreen for Jedi interests. He believed that, if he could simply squash out the Jedi once and for all, the Rebellion would simply fall apart. And no sooner had he managed to deal with Obi-wan when a new Jedi popped up out of nowhere, but Vader felt unable to simply kill him (mainly due to the emotional bond Vader still held with his son), so Vader decided that the interests of the Sith would be served equally well by simply (as you said in your blog) squashing the Light out of him.
Does all that fit in with what you were saying?

ketal13
HanAnWan

date Posted: Jun 29, 2007 8:40 AM

Hm. Ya'll are so insightful here in SW blog world.

You are making me think too much Fan4yrs and it's starting to hurt:

^O
Seriously. Good point. Like Stooge I hadn't made the correlation between the two conversations. My poor pitiful Ani, he was so messed up, and misguided. Before PT I loathed Darth Vadar, after PT I felt such pity for him.

Kenobi-fan. So well put. If there was an applause emoticon, I'd insert it here..__.

	FAN4YRS A Rebel's Ramblings
date Posted: Jun 29, 2007 9:03 AM Kenobi-fan, I really liked all your insights. Capt. Peabody, that's exactly what I was saying. Thank you, ketal13.

	hansgirl3 Invoking the Squee
date Posted: Jun 29, 2007 10:24 AM Excellent catch, Fan4Years!! I hadn't thought about that before either! K-fan ~ perfect!

	Jade Sabre777 A luminous being, I am...
date Posted: Jun 29, 2007 9:30 PM Wow, I hadn't thought about that before! Great thoughts!

	j3d1mast3r Journey into the mind of a (wannabe) Jedi Master
date Posted: Jul 01, 2007 5:07 PM This is beside the point, but the notion of Palpatine knowing that Yoda was dead even after he saw no body is too big a mystery. Look for an upcoming blog about it!

darth vinsidious

date Posted: Jul 02, 2007 11:13 AM

First off Palpatine knew Yoda was alive he just kept Vader in the dark. If you watch ESB Palps only feels the Great disturbance in the force after Yoda and Luke meet. Vader feeks it too, but doesn't say anything to Palps. I don't think he knew about Yoda but he definitely knew about Luke and was trying to get to him beofre Palps did.
Vader was trying to turn Luke to the dark side so he could kill Palps and rule the galaxy, finally. It's what he wanted towards the end of ROTS when he was with Padme.
Palps wnated to use Luke as a newer stronegr Vader to tightne his grip.

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