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Rive's Uncharted Settlements

by: Rive Caedo

date posted: Oct 20, 2005 2:40 PM | updated: Oct 20, 2005 2:46 PM

Qui-Gon's Meditation.

Well would you look at this, a thought on the films instead of the TV show?!
I just watched Episode I to get the sour taste of The Holiday Special out of me. Not quite there yet though *pops Episode II into his DVD Player*

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Ok, the topic of Qui-Gon meditating shortly before his death has been overanalyzed to death. The debate is usually between "He foresaw his death, and "He was just meditating"

It usually ends there. (With both sides simply saying either "He totally saw it coming" or "No way" along with a few wild Expanded Universe theories, Battle Meditation etc.) ...And then ends up on the most popular blogs front page, but that's a different issue...

I'd like to discuss it a level past that though. I used to be of the opinion he was simply centering himself. That brings up the issue though:

Why didn't he run back to get help from Obi-Wan? Instead of just pressing the assault alone.

He surely was smart enough to realize that was the more appropriate course of action (and lets ignore the question of why Obi-Wan didn't use Force Run to reach Qui-Gon). So let's assume he did foresee something. How much did he actually see? If he saw his death alone why wouldn't he do the very same thing? Try to avoid it by running to Obi-Wan.

One possibility is he foresaw Obi-Wan's death at the hands of Maul and pressed his own attack with Obi-Wan's help in order to try to avoid that outcome.

Another answer purposed by some is that he foresaw everything, reaching oneness with the force before death. This is simultaneously the most likely and unlikely. Ignoring the fact that we have no evidence of a Jedi achieving oneness prior to actually dying, why wouldn't he try to kill Maul with Obi-Wan, then reveal Palpatine's true intentions (or at least keep an eye on him), saving the Jedi Order? This makes it seem highly unlikely, but if he foresaw even past the moment and the eventual reestablishment of the Jedi through Luke he may have wished events to play out this way.
This is not highly improbable! Qui-Gon was openly defiant of the Jedi Council and perhaps even the code. It's not unlikely he foresaw the Jedi Order collapsing regardless of what Palpatine did, under its own designs.

A final possibility is that he foresaw himself failing to train Anakin properly and simply "rolled the dice" passing Anakin's fate to someone else that he couldn't foresee in life. It was simply beyond his control that it turn out so well after that anyway

Regardless it is my conclusion that Qui-Gon DID foresee something, even if it wasn't specifically his death. Otherwise why wouldn't he have run back to join up with Obi-Wan? He couldn't have been so overconfident as to ignore his greatest ally? Could he have?

I suppose he could have just thought Obi-Wan was smart enough to Force Run and catch up

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Master_Kenobi17
Takin Over For Talon

date Posted: Oct 20, 2005 2:46 PM

Why didn't he run back to get help from Obi-Wan? Instead of just pressing the assault alone.

How would it look if a seasoned Jedi Master ran back to get help from a Jedi Padawan? I know it's logic vs. masculinity here, but I'm just bringing up a thought.

Anyway, great blog. I think that Qui-Gon didn't get Obi-Wan's help because he wasn't afraid, as Jedi should not be. I honestly believe that he was just gathering his strength for the coming fight. However, you make great points.

If Qui-Gon had survived the duel, do you think he would have sided with Dooku in the Clone Wars 10 years later? I tend to think that me might, especially if he was not training Anakin.

Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements

date Posted: Oct 20, 2005 3:02 PM

Master_Kenobi: "If Qui-Gon had survived the duel, do you think he would have sided with Dooku in the Clone Wars 10 years later?"
I think you've just given me a topic to write about after I finish watching Episode II

Fear... hm... A good point within the context of the film.
Obi-Wan fears for Qui-Gon, which leads to anger, which... well you know the rest.
When you add in Episode III, Qui-Gon having "No thought of self" (unfilmed dialogue) would have allowed him to become one with the force.

However he might have gone back to Obi-Wan not out of fear for himself, but in order to win and thusly protect Obi-Wan in the long run.

	Master_Kenobi17 Takin Over For Talon
date Posted: Oct 20, 2005 3:05 PM Is thusly a word? Anyway, I considered writing a blog about the Qui-Gon/Dooku thing, but then realized that I have way too much to do. I look forward to reading it. Do it justice.

Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements

date Posted: Oct 20, 2005 3:25 PM

Though somewhat off-topic: Yes it is a word, but "Thus" works in all situations that "Thusly" does. It's basically an attempt to sound fancy, "Thus" is more correct. This explanation obviously casts my comment in a bad light thusly I must delete your comment and repost mine with a correction. Heh

In all seriousness though I suppose I should stop using "Thusly" I just like how it sounds though

Darth Kevinmhk

date Posted: Oct 20, 2005 6:47 PM

i always thought that the duel consumed lots of Qui-Gon's strength....

afterall althought he is good...
he is not as physical as Maul
he is not as elegant as Dooku which save strength
he is not as Force-sensitive as Yoda to keep dueling in the faciest form
he never have a deathmatch with Sith Lord
and he is not a young man...

so i thought he sit to calm himself (mental),
and use the Force to ease his tireless (physical)
like something control his breath and relax the muscle stuff

Jedi Master Timmiwon

date Posted: Oct 20, 2005 8:16 PM

This scene in Ep1 is very similar to the scene in Ep4 where Vader and Obi-Wan are dueling as Luke looks on. George Lucas probably intended the Ep1 scene to make this connection to Obi-Wan and Luke in Ep4.
Like Obi-Wan in Ep4, Qui-Gon's first responsibility was to his Padawan. Qui-Gon knew that Obi-Wan was destined to become a great Jedi Master. The Jedi Council gave Qui-Gon grief for wanting to take Annakin as his Padawan so Qui-Gon knew that if he died they would look more favorably on Obi-Wan taking Annakin as his Padawan. Obi-Wan was due to become a Jedi Knight anyway and he had promised Qui-Gon that he would train Annakin.

Bekkara
The Wroshyr Tree

date Posted: Oct 20, 2005 8:35 PM

Hrm, interesting thoughts. I always wrote it off as a plot device - one I didn't particularly go for myself, but of course it isn't my movie - Qui-Gon doesn't show up in the original trilogy, and his death and Obi-Wan's promise augment an environment conducive to Anakin's fall.

This reminds me of a paper I recently wrote for a class I'm taking on Greek and Roman drama (you know me and my Classical connections

) on causation in Greek tragedy. I only barely touched on it in my paper, but the dramatic irony of the situation (the fact that we know more than the characters do) really does color these things, particularly our perceptions of them... (argh, darn length limits)

	Bekkara The Wroshyr Tree
date Posted: Oct 20, 2005 8:35 PM ...which I think is potentially more important (and more interesting, for that matter) than the character's actual reasons, whatever those may be. It makes me wonder, does that betray some ulterior motive on the author's part?

	jediknight2210 Where did you dig up that old fossil?
date Posted: Oct 20, 2005 11:02 PM I like to think he was making himself one with the force, as Obi-wan does in ROTS, total immersion in the force. Qui-gon than uses his gathered up force swirling around him and unleashes his final stand.

cccbeck

date Posted: Oct 21, 2005 12:31 PM

I agree with him just centering himself and getting ready for the ensuing battle. Also it is possible he saw a certain outcome and chose do go at it himself. But like Yoda says "always in motion is the future" so he may have not seen the actual future but an alternative.

Also, I always felt that Obi-Wan, as a Padawan, did not have enough energy left to force run.

	Margie-Wan
date Posted: Oct 21, 2005 7:14 PM Interesting blog. I think the reason he didn't run back to Obi-Wan was that to turn your back on a Sith Lord is never a good idea, even if it's just a second. I always though Obi-Wan couldn't force run because he had been beat up quite a bit already by the duel and didn't have the strength. Sort of like what cccbeck said.

	oyjaswf
date Posted: Oct 23, 2005 12:47 AM Would you turn your back to Maul for a scecond? No way! Just like Margie-Wan said. Besides which Master would want to drag his/her Padawan into a death match? Obi's probably seriously worn out like cccbeck said, he wont be much of a help...

SlaveoftheForce
Enter the 36th Chamber

date Posted: Oct 23, 2005 8:47 AM

It could be that the force field directly in between Maul and Qui-Gon would deactivate way before those between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon thus making it literally strategically impossible for Qui-Gon to have run back to Obi-Wan to battle Maul with unfair odds, no honor there really, and Maul would have cut Qui-Gon down from the back. Coupled with he probably knew his time had come... or at least that his number was about up... and there you have it.

	SlaveoftheForce Enter the 36th Chamber
date Posted: Oct 23, 2005 8:48 AM I don't think he was "making himself one with the Force" because I think that took years of prior cultivation. Become one with the Universe isn't something that you do in 40 seconds, it takes decades, a lifetime even. Obi-Wan, in Ep 4, didn't even actually get cut down by Vader, he willed his body to dissolute into the Force itself.

Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements

date Posted: Oct 23, 2005 12:04 PM

Good thoughts on Qui-Gon not wanting to turn his back on Maul, Maul was in front of Qui-Gon though so Qui-Gon could have walked backwards, deliberatly letting Maul gain some ground while slowly working his way back to Obi-Wan.
I completely agree Qui-Gon wasn't making himself one with the Force in just that moment, but he could have been doing some "Last minute" preperations. After all, he was the first Jedi (supposedly) to do it. Obi-Wan had a much more definitive teacher for making himself one with the Force than Qui-Gon.

jedipat12345

date Posted: Oct 23, 2005 8:39 PM

alright twos problem with the hole becoming one with the force thing
1. qui gon didnt disappear as obi wan and yoda did. yoda did right havent seen ot in a while.
2. he tryed to kill maul. nolet himself be killed like obi wan.

but then theres the thing Jedi Master Timmiwon said. we obviously all know the OT and the PT r reflections of eachother (1=4). so this is y i htink qui gon was becoming one with the force as obiwan did. theres the connection of obi and luke watching it happen. and then qui gons voice when anakin was slaughtering the tuskens. i think jinn was becoming one with the force so he could help anakin like obi helped luke.

ps. i wonder is anakin heard qui gon jinn in ep2 when he sayd "no anakin no"

Darth_Revor

date Posted: Oct 24, 2005 10:41 PM

I always believed he was using his meditation to calm himself and open himself up to the will of the Force for focus. It is often suggested that the best Jedi allow the Force to control them, so this idea makes a lot of sense to me. Also, as it has already been said, who would turn their back on Darth Maul? I also agree, this whole becoming one with the Force is just over-thought with Qui-Gon's case. On a side note, readers of Rogue Planet will remember that Anakin was able to hear the presence of Qui-Gon on occassion although Obi-Wan was skeptical of it.

DarthFess

date Posted: Oct 26, 2005 5:12 AM

I believe that Qui-Gon fore sore the entire future up to luke and probably to the new jedi order set up by luke. As Qui-Gon defied the council so often, he defied them by looking for and at an old artifact/holocron which held information on how to become one with the force and how to enhance your power of sight. Using this Qui-Gon in his meditation fore sore everything. this therefore explains his actions in ep1

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