Dooku had turned to the Sith and succeeded in even convincing us, the observers of the universe to truly believe that he was just a "political idealist, not a murderer" it has been implied and insinuated enough to call it evidence that Dooku murdered Sifo-Dyas, it was probably then, that he truly became a Sith lord. Years before he left the order, he was probably talking to Sidious. and then came the time to prove his resolve in following the Sith lord, I believe he started out a politcal idealist, with greedy ambition, which then turned to murderous despotism and hunger for ultimalte power and control.

He was a Sith Lord true and true, he had pledged himself to the teachings of Darth Sidious, to the Sith. As a political Idealist he would have been to hard to control for Palpatine, Dooku had to be loyal to Sidious, if he was just an Idealist, he could have turned on lord Sidious, and that could not happen. Sidious had Tyrranus full loyalty as a sith lord, and was therefore able to conduct the clone wars. Dooku's demise came because he never reached the point to challenge Sidious' power before he was replaced by Darth Vader.

Rive, there is nothing saying that it can't be as you want it to be. A lot of Dooku's true motivations are not expressed or made clear. We don't know the circumstances through which he became Sidious' apprentice. Was he doing it for the power or because he was truly an idealist who thought he could subvert Sidious' plan to make things right? Maybe until the very end he thought he was in control of the Dark Side rather than it controlling him. Sort of like how a drug and alcohol user thinks they are doing something only recreationally and can quit anytime. They think they are in complete control at all times until their life begins spiralling out of control. They try to quit and can't.

As highly intelligent as Dooku was, I seriously doubt he planned on subverting Sidious to his own designs. I really believe that Dooku pledged himself totally to Sidious and, in so doing, became a Sith to the very core. Sure Maul and Vader (even Sidious) can be overtly evil, but Tyranus' evil was far more concealed. His guise as a gentleman and charismatic nobleman was so convincing and compelling, his true evil as a Sith could not even be suspected, let alone detected. In fact, the same can be said of Sidious' guise as Palpatine...

Because Dooku's evil nature was so well disguised, he brings another aspect to the Sith, hidden evil. Otherwise, the Sith would be nothing but Mauls and Vaders, so one-dimensional. In terms of Dooku's motivations, I think he was very much like Anakin in that Dooku's philosophies and beliefs were twisted and distorted by Sidious. Besides, Christopher Lee himself said of Dooku that his nobility as a Jedi was so corrupted over the years that he became completely amoral. That of course eased his transition to Sith Lord considerably. Qui-gon's death only added more anguish to Dooku.

Also, just as Anakin was promised life over death through the dark side, I'm sure Dooku was promised the fulfillment of his political ideals through the dark side just the same. And since Dooku was described as having always been power-hungry in the Ep. 2 novel, it also stands to reason that the dark side was to Dooku more power than he ever dreamed of (duh!). Of course, this was another reason Anakin turned. It also seems obvious that Sidious tempted people with the dark side by using what matters most to his apprentices to be.

And to answer the question of this blog, I wholeheartedly believe it was necessary to the story that Dooku was a Sith. Because he was a Jedi Master, Dooku demonstrated that even the highest ranked among the Jedi can turn to the dark side. And just as his Sith nature was so well concealed, so too were his motivations. I really believe that he was completely loyal to Sidious and served him not only in carrying out the Clone Wars and the domination of the Republic, but in totally hiding the Sith's involvment in the war. After all, the Jedi didn't realize the Sith's involvement and influence until it was far too late.

i was watching episode 2 and there's this part where count dooku is talking with Poggle the Lesser (the archduke of the geonosians ) and asks how the jedi got an army so quickly when he knows that that army of clones being used by the jedi is the one he gave the order to the kaminoans to create?. Now, did darth sidious order dooku to create this clone army for his (sidious') purposes or was it dooku who decided to create the clone army to overthrow darth sidious?, Did dooku know that darth sidious still had talkings with nute gunray after gunray had told him he was betrayed by sidious? and finally why didn't dooku tell anakin that palpatine was darth sidious before he got his head chopped off?.

I believe everything Master Moonlighter said was right on the money. Just to add to the mix, Dooku asking Obi-wan to join him was merely a ploy. He was doing what sith do best - lying.
He made Obi-wan - and the other jedi masters, obviously - believe he left the order because he was irate with the where things were heading. Hiding the fact that he turned to the darkside, so the council could not detect the sith presence. And the whole bit about Qui-gon
joining him if he were alive, was also to try and fool Obi-wan into beliving Dooku.

Darth Tyranus was necessary as an indicator that a Jedi could not only fall to darkness but could transition across to being a Sith. This is necessary as a precursor to what happens to Anakin.

Tyranus was a different kind of Sith. He was not the pure evil enforcer like Maul, nor the avenging lord like Vader or the plotting overlord Sidious. At first he really was an idealist, but he became seduced by the Dark Side. At the last moments of his life he realised how he had been used by Sidious.

So even though he is a Sith I sometimes wonder if Dooku was really that evil. He seems more like a lawful evil character. You know he is used by Sidious and you almost pity him for believing the lies of Sidious.

Tyranus does not want revnege:
Unlike Sidious / Maul, Tyranus doesnt care the fall of the Sith
which happened thousand of years ago

Tyranus does not use hatred and anger:
As far as i got, Tyranus has to remain elegant and grand to use
Makashi. Anger and hatred would ruin his elegant style. Tyranus
does not use physical strength (Vader / Maul did), he used skills
to overcome strength

As far as EU now goes, Tyranus really believed that he is doing
the right thing by following Sidious: wipe out the corrupted government
of the Republic, he thought Jedi Order was doing so less to uncover
the rise of darkness, so Jedi Order must change too

in short Rive, what Mace thought in ROTS novel:
Tyranus was the Palpatine of the CIS
that's why Sidious needs him

Dooku probably got caught up EU Luke Skywalker style. Thinking he could stay on the light side while using dark side powers, and suddenly he ends up a sith, and he likes it .
In the end, Sideous used his apprentices as a tool, Maul was just a war machine that he was prepared to die at any time. Dooku was to lead the other side and eventually become a factor in Anakin's development as a sith, and Vader was a tool in the end to convert Luke. Dooku was a sith, but was probably a dark jedi in at least part of AOTC. As a dark jedi, he called himself Darth Tyrannus because he liked to think he was a sith, which he became.

And on the subject of lightsaber colours that was brought up earlier, didn't Obi-Wan have a purple lightsaber as a padawan as well as Windu?

Darth Tyranus was necessary as an indicator that a Jedi could not only fall to darkness but could transition across to being a Sith. This is necessary as a precursor to what happens to Anakin.

Mr. Fett (see comment above) has it right, in my opinion. Dooku helped Sidious fulfill his plan for galactic domination but I think his primary reason for existence was to show the cracks in the Jedi Order....cracks ignored by the Jedi.

I really had no problem with Lucas' portrayal of Dooku as a fallen Jedi Knight turned Sith Lord. I wonder if there are those who dislike the idea of a Jedi Knight becoming a Sith Lord. Even before the PT was released, we all knew that Vader was previously a Jedi Knight, thanks to ESB and ROTJ. And I think that those who do seemed to have forgotten that the founder of the Siths was a "rogue Jedi Knight". And since the Jedi Order ended up thriving again following Palpatine's death, there will always be a good chance that a future Jedi Knight might revive the Siths, again.

I like that! Good blog Rive. I didn't read the comments in the original blog, or this one, but I have two comments. (Sorry if it was pointed out already)

First you say that with just two line changes it would work, but you frogot a tiny tiny little detail:

You have done well Lord Tyranus

oops, well, yeah, so another line change no biggie.

Also, if Dooku is a fallen Jedi or even a Dark Jedi (concept not used or known in the movies, I know) Wouldn't there be a need for a real Sith apprentice? Maul could've survived TPM, Dooku would have not interfered in the 2-sith rule and we could have seen more Maul action.

Maybe, maybe not, but it'd have been really cool to have Sidious, Maul and Dooku in AOTC. Maybe even in ROTS, where Maul would have been Greivous (and finally killed by Obi-Wan in Utapau, something he would have failed to do in TPM)

hmmmmm..... I like the sound of that.

-------

I might take this reply and give it some more thought, detail, etc and make it into a blog (linking yo yours of course)

I don't mean that Maul would be the one inside the Greivous armor. I meant that Maul would evolve and have more duties, that he would be in ROTS instead of Greivous. The Darth Maul we saw in TPM would've made it through the 3 films.

Just trying to make myself clear about this.

Dooku's fall is meant to demonstrate that if you get involved in a truly epic clash between light and dark, as StarWars is intended to be, that you can't stay neutral. On a more simplistic tone, its meant to show that the Dark Side can corrupt even those with the best of intentions.

Count Dooku was just an unnesessary addition to the collections of pompous Star Wars villains who end up dying pathetically, in my opinion. Fallen Jedi would have been better than Sith Lord. Sith Lord is too high a rank for someone whos head gets cut off by his own saber.


What the fierfek is your avatar????????

I don't mean that Maul would be the one inside the Greivous armor. I meant that Maul would evolve and have more duties, that he would be in ROTS instead of Greivous
Get rid of Grievous? Nah, he was way to good a character to get rid of, though, like Maul, poorly developed. I'd say elaborate Maul into AOTC and kill him off there, then start Grievous off in AOTC and kill him later on in ROTS (And not by OWKenobi on Utapau.) The problem there of course is that Dooku would be shoved out, who is too important to shove out. So I don't really know what I'd do then
Any way, back on topic

Darth Vader: *Insert Star Wars equivelent for "Holy bloody hell!" here* I can't believe I forgot to mention that the line that gives him the name Tyranus would have to be changed. I think I'll edit that in now I suppose it "was" common sense, but still, I honestly didn't think about it.

An interesting extension of my blog by saying that you could have Maul and Dooku at the same time if Dooku had been a Grey Jedi. It's a bit beyond the simplisticity I was trying to evidence in this version but feel free to go ahead. A well thought out "What if?" is fine in my book.

jedimasterD: It's Darth Revan, from Knights of the Old Republic.

Talk about a very fascinating alternative, and I think you're right, it would have vastly enriched and improved the new trilogy, especially the third movie and Anakin killing a defensless man who wasn't truly evil (nor truly good.) Not that I'm saying that Lucas has lost his touch for making a universe deep and moving, I love the new trilogy (well not overly fond of Episode II but loved I and III) but like all stories ever told, whether in novel format or cinema, or even word of mouth, there's room for improvement. As a writer I know it's easy to get involved in the bigger plot and simply not think of small things like this to enrich a story.

Well nice things your all saying about Dooku but remember that if he had not fueled the money into the Clone Wars then the death of the jedi would not have happened (thanks to the clone army created by Dooku 'i was hired by Tyranus' Fett meaning that Dooku made the army) then Palpatine/Sidious would not have had the power or man power to distory the Jedi. Sooo nice stuff about Dooku but in the end the good he was looking for was the one thing he was distroying. "from a surtane point of view" Obi Wan ROTJ

Jedi Master Samot: Why couldn't Dooku still lead the Seperatists and fund the war without his Darth title and red lightsaber?

If u have seen the clone wars animation you will see that dooku was actually trying to find sum one to kill anakin by pitting animals and robots against each other until he found a dark jedi who professed to be a sith - dooku beat this dark jedi and gave him 2 sith sabres which were modelled on his own sabre, he would not give a sith 2 sabres based on his own sabre if he were not also a sith - in my opinion anyway

Darthfess: I'd like to remind you that in the old order (the one Dooku was trained in) it was customery for the padawan to have a lightsaber simiular to their master, so even as a gery jedi he would still keep to the old teachings.

Rive Caedo: Well because the title/saber doesn't make the person, the person makes the title/saber. Anyway just look at him in ROTS and look at him just when his about to be slain, and look at the eyes it will explain more than words, just plause that moment. Oh and theres no wrong answers only some are btter than others.