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 | Sir, we've entered the Alderaan system. |
 (( Stage 3 of cleansing The Holiday Special from my system, a series of random thoughts when viewing the saga))
Previous editions: Stage 1, Stage 2
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So I was just reading Graffiti's latest blog about plot twists that would be going too far in that Star Wars universe. The first one he made up is...
"Princess Leia witnessed first hand the destruction of Alderaan by the Death Star, but what she didn't know was that before her home planet was destroyed, Bail Organa escaped and is STILL ALIVE!"
Granted it didn't need to be done in such a dramatic manner. 
but seriously... Why didn't he? Or many others for that matter?
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Leia: No! Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons. You can't possibly...
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Ok assuming we believe Leia that Alderaan has no planetary defenses (most likely true, why would the Empire let them have large scale weapons?) why wouldn't they have scanners?
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Aid to Bail Organa: "A small moon-sized battle station just appeared in the system and appears to be powering up an extremely large power source, We've analyzed their weapons systems sir, and there is a danger. Should I have your ship standing by?"
Bail Organa: Evacuate? In our most desperate hour ( that's what I told Leia to say anyway) ? I think you overestimate my common sense!
*A few minutes pass as Leia is threatened by Tarkin*
Bail Organa: "See? Everything turned out fine, I'm sure that battle station we found the plans for was just stopping by to say hello, no need to warn the population or evacuate ourselves like we surely planned to do if the Emperor ever tried to take a complete grip on the galaxy. I thought that would be what he was trying to do since he disbanded the Imperial Senate yesterday. Nope looks like Emperor Palpatine is turning over a new leaf and..."
*Master Kenobi gets a bad headache*
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Yeah right. 
Just in case you didn't catch the equation in there.
Bail Organa being one of the only 3 people who we're sure knows everything about Palpatine's motives
He told his daughter to find Obi-Wan Kenobi because he knew things were heating up and they couldn't sit in the shadows any longer
He was surely aware the Senate has just been disbanded evidencing Palpatine's plans for taking control
Bail Organa knew that the Empire has built a battle station even if he didn't know if it had a weakness.
A moon sized battle station has entered the Alderaan system
He's been a public figure for decades and surely has evacuation plans known publicly to his subordinates in case of say... an assassination attempt by political dissidents. Not to mention private ones if the Empire ever found out he's been aiding the Rebel Alliance
And this all adds up to: Let's sit around for 10 mintutes?
Maybe I'm just missing something painfully obvious, but it seems Bail Organa would have been the most likely person to survive Alderaan, even if the rest of the planet was caught off-guard by their beloved Galactic Empire bringing peace, justice, and security... By blowing them up... After hovering in the system for a good ten minutes at least.
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Why shouldn't Bail have been halfway across the galaxy by the time Obi-Wan feels millions of voices suddenly silenced?
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◄ Rive Caedo►
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http://blogs.starwars.com/rive/60 |
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Grand Admiral Veers0
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 5:10 PM
Very interesting point Rive. As I tried desperately to think of something 'in universe' to contradict this I only came up with two things:
1. Organa was originally never meant to be a character. His death was not even mentioned in the movie
2. You base this assumption that Star Wars is based on logic. Everyone here has made it painfully clear that the Saga (and especially A New Hope) are hardly that.
Anyway, enjoyable read
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Master_Kenobi17
Takin Over For Talon
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 5:20 PM
I don't believe that Alderaan had enough time to evacuate after Leia stole the plans. Remember, she was trying to deliver to them to Bail on Alderaan when her ship fell under attack. So, Bail could only have known about it if Leia called him after stealing the plans. This left precious little time, in the form of one night.
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Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 5:23 PM
Grand Admiral Veers0:
1. Interesting his death was originally intended to be mentioned in the movie. The version without the extra dialogue in the script was used in the film however.
WILLARD: (holding Leia) You're safe! We had feared the
worst.
Willard composes himself, steps back and bows formally.
WILLARD: When we heard about Alderaan, we were afraid that you were... lost along with your father.
LEIA
We don't have time for our sorrows, commander. The battle station has surely tracked us here. (looking pointedly at Han) It's the only explanation for the ease of our escape. You must use the information in this R2 unit to plan the attack. It is our only hope.
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Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 5:37 PM
Master_Kenobi17: I also doubt there would be time for a planetary evacuation. And as you said, there would be no cause for it. Bail had no way of recieving news that Leia's mission had failed. He did however know about the plans in the first place, why else would he have asked for Obi-Wan's help in their "Most desperate hour"?
So why would he personally not attempt to escape when the battle station appeared?
I doubt there is an in-universe answer currently in any case, it's fun to think about though.
Perhaps he did escape but his ship was disabled by shockwaves forcing him to launch an escape pod. That lone TIE-Fighter that engages the Falcon had just destroyed it 
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Master_Kenobi17
Takin Over For Talon
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 5:57 PM
So why would he personally not attempt to escape when the battle station appeared?
I doubt there is an in-universe answer currently in any case, it's fun to think about though.
I don't think that Bail considered Alderaan as the Death Star's first target. He was probably sitting down at dinner when the Death Star came out of hyperspace. It's extremely doubtful he could make it to a ship and escape in time.
You're right about the Organas both knowing about the Death Star, though. Says so in the databank.
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The_last_maldorian
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 6:06 PM
What is the point of this blog???
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Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 6:41 PM
The_last_maldorian:
The point is to bring forth an issue that isn't often discussed. Why wouldn't Bail Organa be on high alert, esspecially after the Emperor had disbanded the senate? To present a thought, yet another oddness between the two triliogies.
Unless of course you're refering to my Blog as a whole? In which case I do call it "A myriad of largely aimless ramblings"
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Diviner525
In the Flesh
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 6:58 PM
lol. Of course, maybe we are giving too much credit to the scientists on Alderaan:
Scientist #1: Hey, a new moon has entered orbit . . wait, it's metal.
Scientist #2: Cool, a new moon made of metal! We can mine the heck out of that thing!!
"Greed can be a powerful ally."
Anyway, cool blog RC.
D525.
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Master Asmodeus
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 6:59 PM
Interesting point. Why didn't Bail leave Alderaan?
I've a few ideas, no idea how valid they are:
1) The Death Star was equipped with some form of sensor stealth equipment. I know it is unlikely, it being the size of a small moon, hiding it would be difficult. It was the first thing that occured to me, but also the most feeble.
2) Bail's evactuation would arouse suspicion around the planet. "Hey? Where's our leader going in such a hurry?" He may've felt it best to remain with his people to the bitter end.
[cont.]
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Master Asmodeus
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 7:00 PM
[cont.]
3) The Death Star dropped out of hyperspace beyond Alderaan's sensor range, and charged it's weapon on approach. In The Empire Strikes Back Vader kills one officer for coming out of hyperspace too close to the system. Perhaps the event of exiting hyperspace is more obvious to sensors, or as I initially stated their range isn't large enough to cover the entire system. If it could charge its main weapon on approach, it's possible that the planet had enough time to think "Oh damn, we're goner's..." before being blow up.
Ah well, that's all I've got. Cheers on the good blog, making me think about something I'd never considered before.
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LightSith94
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 7:30 PM
Could it be that Bail assumed that the Emperor was arriving to talk surrender of the Alliance. Maybe he believed that the Empire would never dare to just blast his planet without any dialogue. i assume he was heading to his Office thinking of what he was going to say to the Emperor to difuse the situation by Negotiation.
Plausible?...
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oyjaswf
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 8:17 PM
1.He was having a nap.
2.Or else touching up his makeup infront of the mirror to meet Obi.
3.Bcoz the script told him to stay
Good point though
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Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 11:36 PM
Master Asmodeus: Wow you hit on about 3 out of the 6 things I thought could be "Plausible explanations" for why Bail died. Kudos!
1. is the easiest to dismiss since you'd think that Han or one of the X-Wing pilots would have mentioned such a thing on their seperate approaches.
2. This is the one I put the most sway to. We don't have much canon info on Bail's mindset around Episode IV, so it's possible he simply decided to put full faith in Leia and Kenobi being able to do things without him (remember, he doesn't know she was attacked) while he "went down with the ship".
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Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements
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date Posted: Oct 28, 2005 11:42 PM
3. This one works fairly well too, the only arguement I really have against it is that Alderaan would probably have some scout ships or at least merchants in the system that would detect the station and warn Alderaan don't you think? Hoth it wasn't a problem since it was an unpopulated system. You could explain this one if Alderaan was under Imperial blockade.
Excellent counterthoughts, glad I got you thinking
LightSith94: You are right that Bail might have thought that someone would try to make contact before anything happened, so he avoided leaving hoping he could stall for time to allow others to evacuate. This sort of goes with the "down with the ship" theory.
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darthbathory
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date Posted: Oct 29, 2005 12:05 PM
You know, after reading this blog I'm convinced that Tarkin is possibly more malicious (not necessarily evil, since he's not a Sith!) than Palpatine. If Coruscant is the New York City of Star Wars, then Alderaan must be the Boston or Philadelphia of Star Wars. Famous, powerful, and influential, Alderaan was right at the center of the civilized Galaxy. It would have been as though a US general wiped out one of the aforementioned cities at a whim.
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darthbathory
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date Posted: Oct 29, 2005 12:06 PM
It could have been some other, lesser planet on the mid-Rim, but then, that would ruin the effect of the Tarkin Doctrine.....nevertheless, I'm convinced that Tarkin acted not only irrationally, but had he not been killed by the Rebels the Emperor himself may have removed him from command. I'm just in disbelief that an Imperial general could blow up a planet that important to the Galaxy without permission from the Emperor himself.
Not on subject, I know. Sorry. Maybe I should start my own blog.
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Master_Kenobi17
Takin Over For Talon
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date Posted: Oct 29, 2005 4:08 PM
What is the point of this blog???
It's comments like this that wiped out your people, last mandalorian.
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Graffiti
Somewhere on the Other Side of Mos Eisley
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date Posted: Oct 31, 2005 1:18 PM
Great blog, Rive. I realized after I wrote my blog that it was perfectly plausible that Bail Organa could have escaped. I did think of a few reasons why he didn't, a few of which have been discussed in the comments. Being the upstanding leading he was, Bail probably preferred to remain on Alderaan until he was sure everyone else could be evacuated, which there was definitely not enough time for.
The other reason I thought of was the Superman Excuse. Jor-El didn't leave Krypton even though be knew for a long time that it was going to explode (presumably not to incite panic), but he conceived a way for his son, the future Superman, to be rocketed away just in time.
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Sunnyskywalker
Sunnyskywalker's Star Wars Stuff
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date Posted: Nov 01, 2005 7:14 PM
Hmm...maybe it was 4 AM and Bail just isn't a morning person? Really though, I think LightSith94's explanation sounds the most plausible to me. The Empire had been relying mostly on the fear of force rather than force itself up to that point--I mean, that one officer actually told Vader that holding Leia was dangerous for the Empire because the senators might not like it--so Bail was probably preparing to negotiate.
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hairydarth
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date Posted: Nov 02, 2005 8:14 PM
Bail's a patriot and a fighter hes not going to leg it at the first sign of trouble and leave his family etc. Anyway we dont know for sure if there was an attempt at evacuation cos rather intriguingly when alderaan got blown up those who could have metioned that there was an evacuation in process were blown up with it. Anyway just how long would it take to pack up the populace and go? Bail may have just accepted his fate and passed the baton onto Mothma and Leia. After all hed done his job hadnt he?
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