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Rive's Uncharted Settlements
by: Rive Caedo
date posted: Nov 28, 2005 9:26 PM  | 
updated: Dec 02, 2005 4:28 PM
Did Palpatine know more than we think?
I've avoided the topic for the most part since the relationship between Darth Plagueis and Palpatine is vague at best. However I think an original (or at least semi-original considering the incredible number of Palpatine/Plagueis blogs) thought has finally occurred to me on the topic.

So we return once again to a continuous theme in Star Wars "A certain point of view

Since Sidious represents Satan, the deceiver and all manner of evil it seems he would be even more likely than Obi-Wan, Yoda, and all our favorite lightsiders that choose their own, sometimes boarding on a lie, point of view.

However official sources now state that Plagueis was indeed Sidious's master at some point so we are left to know that Sidious is not lying about that aspect of his statements

"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.


So what points of view are we left with here? Perhaps Plagueis could indeed create life but not create the spark of sentience. Or alternatively could only create very small lifeforms, microbes and the like. This is unimportant to my main point though.

The more interesting piece of the statement is "He could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. a certain point of view is easy to establish here. Plagueis had "such a knowledge of the dark side that he cared for no one any longer and thus had no one to keep from dying. It'd be like saying "Wise old man Jenkins was able to keep all his boats perfectly clean all the time you place inflection on the "all" to make it seem as this is a momentous task... Even if Jenkins didn't own any boats. Since he had no boats, logically all his boats, a total of zero, were clean. It may be a difficult concept to grasp like many of the "Points of view in Star Wars, but hopefully most of you caught on.

If you follow this logic then Palpatine was deceiving Anakin, true to his character, but telling the truth... from a certain point of view.

This seems directly contradicted by Palpatine's later line "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved there's not much duplicity to draw from this statement is there? Unless he wasn't referring to Plagueis at all.

Palpatine was at Qui-Gon's funeral, presumably just to give us that foreshadowy moment at the end of Episode I But what if Palpatine was ahead of the game as he often is? What if he sensed that Qui-Gon had achieved something, or started to anyway. Qui-Gon had achieved eternal life, a lofty goal for power hungry Palpatine.

Again Palpatine deceives Anakin by making him think it is the same power Plagueis presumably had, but in fact he's referring to a completely different ability. To cheat death. Not save it. Still; all of Palpatine's statements would be true from a certain point of view.

So what's your opinion? Could Sidious have been aware of Qui-Gon's transcension from the netherworld of the force far before Yoda and the rest? If you want to take the point even further could this have influenced Sidious plans in one form or another? It's not unlikely that Sidious could have pursued Anakin as an apprentice despite seemingly not really needing him to conquer the galaxy, thinking that anyone that Qui-Gon had wished to train might be gifted with the same ability as Qui-Gon himself? To cheat death.
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Rive Caedo
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  shatterpoint282
''This Party's Over ''
date Posted: Nov 28, 2005 9:32 PM
Good thoughts , i hadn't thought of that possibility , its quite possible that you are rite , ok this blog rocked , these kind of blogs are why you are on my blog role and on so many other blog roles , keep it up :D
  Kenobi-fan
The Jundland Wastes Journal
date Posted: Nov 28, 2005 9:39 PM
Could Sidious have been aware of Qui-Gon's transcension from the netherworld of the force far before Yoda and the rest?

Why did Sidious have to know anything about Qui-Gon's version? Why not just use what was already at hand: Cloning! All Palpatine or Plagieus needed to figure out was how to use the Force to transfer their conciousness to another body of thiers - before they actually died. I know about the Dark Empire series, however, even without this, it seems plausible that the possibility was already being explored through technology. Technology was the tool of the Empire, when not exploit it's uses in this area as well.
  cestus183
date Posted: Nov 28, 2005 10:19 PM
Why not just use what was already at hand: Cloning!
They have to find people with the necessary equipment first. The whole affair can lead to awkward questions and dificult situations.
Good points. That's why I like your blogs, Rive.
Could Sidious have been aware of Qui-Gon's transcension from the netherworld of the force far before Yoda and the rest?
He might have acclerated his plans to cloud the Force the the dark side to prevent Qui-Gon from contacting any of the Jedi.
  Son of a Bith
The Cantina Corner
date Posted: Nov 28, 2005 10:44 PM
The Sith were not interested in immortality of the spirit, which Qui-gon acheived. They were interested in immortality of the body.
  Grand Admiral Veers0
date Posted: Nov 28, 2005 11:54 PM
The mark of a great liar is mixing falsehood with a touch of honesty. We have all seen that Sidious did this many times, enough to give himself incredible credentials in that area, and there is no way that the tale could be true from the way he presented it. But it is true, if only from a certain point of view, and it contradicts everything Anakin believed about the tale. Wondeful entry once again Rive, I hope they continue

A certain point of view?!
-Luke, Return of the Jedi
  Darth Desimus
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 1:05 AM
Good blog. It gets really interesting when you compare Sidious to Satan. Lucifer was actually originally more of a dissenter than an outright opponent of God. In this sense Lucifer, or 'the light bringer', was providing an alternate point of view, not necessarily one that was evil.

Admittedly Palps is pure evil but that doesn't mean he is necessary lying. Anyone interested in this should read Origins of Satan which show how the representation and interpretations of lucifer have changed over millenia.
  Darth Chockerious
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 1:58 AM
I like this Blog, It could very well be that Darth Sidious felt Qui-gon's spirit. And even though the Sith want to live forever, telling Anakin what he wants to hear even if you twist the truth a bit, helped turn him to the Dark Side. Yoda believed that when a person dies, he becomes one with the Force. A Sith might think different.
Besides, if a person should rejoice when someone "becomes one with the force" Then why is Yoda so sad about all the Jedi who died? Double standards
  prettypadme999
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 3:43 AM
WOW, nice blog! It really got me thinking....I think you might be right. So many possibilities. Yes i think he probly knew. With the point of veiw thing...Sith are all about that. Man this one makes ya think!
  DarthThrawn4
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 4:48 AM
I think you are right about Plapatine knowing. In the TPM just before the sceen changes you can clearly see Palaptine smile a bit. he must have known. Or maybe palpatine organised that too in part of another mastermind plan. As far as i am conceredned Sidious can do anything. Who knows he may have let Yoda win. After all didn't he decieve them for over 20 years? (By they way i am a Sidious fan)
  Darth Chockerious
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 6:20 AM
I agree, Darth Plaguies couldn't have created Anakin. There is no way at all!!!
  Jedi_Master_Gizko_Mani
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 7:36 AM
very well written blog. best one i've seen in weeks!
  darth_nivek1
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 7:56 AM
my name is darth nivek and i think plaguise started the new power and sidious perfected it
and i think they should expaline qui gon more
  Son of a Bith
The Cantina Corner
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 1:05 PM
"The ability the cheat death is a power only one has acheived..." Everytime I hear that line I think of Keith Richards.:D
  Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 5:11 PM
Hm... I'm a bit surprised this one went over with less disagreement than my Order 66 blog :p

Kenobi-fan: Though I'm generally avoiding EU material in my blogs unless I specifically bring it up...
It stands to reason that Palpatine would want a backup plan. More likely though (if you wanted to tie it better into EU) is that Palpatine sensed at some point or another that Qui-Gon had aquired this new abillity that the Emperor didn't think possible (To maintain your identity after death) and this incited him to try to develop his own version seen in the EU you mentioned.

Son of a Bith: Same responce to your first comment as Kenobi, sensing Qui-Gon could have given him the spark to even try to retain his self.
  Darth Kevinmhk
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 7:30 PM
A very great blog...

But if Sidious is aware of Qui-Gon, then could Qui-Gon aware of
"Sidious aware him"? if Qui-Gon indeed felt so, normally he should
inform Yoda! It seemed not even Qui-Gon knew who Sidious was.
i guess Sidious has to use the Force to aware Qui-Gon's transformation,
then would spirital Qui-Gon feel some powerful dark side user "awaring him"?
  Diviner525
In the Flesh
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 8:35 PM
Interesting thoughts Rive. I'm not buying into the theory that Palpatine is speaking of Qui-gon during his "To cheat death" speech to Anakin. He's fully putting the pressure on Anakin, and I think he is still referring to Darth Plagueis and his supposed ability to protect the ones he cared about. Palpatine knows what Anakin desires, and he's feeding into that.

(cont)
  Diviner525
In the Flesh
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 8:38 PM
But having said that, I do think that some aspects of the whole 'Legend of Darth Plagueis' are true. As for Palpatine realizing that Qui-gon had achieved eternal life - he may have been aware of that, it's really anybody's guess. I don't think he was, since Yoda (in the RoTS novel) was not aware of what Qui-gon had achieved until the Force (in Qui-gon's voice) specifically reached out to him. Just some thoughts.

D525.
  Rive Caedo
Rive's Uncharted Settlements
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 9:07 PM
Diviner525: That's more along the realm I thought most would be thinking. :)
Looks like I neglected to say it in the body, but I hinted at it in the blog description
"Through the Dark Side he saw more than Yoda... and everything he said was true... from a certain point of view."
Implying that Yoda was clouded by the Dark Side as is constantly refered to, preventing communication with Qui-Gon.
  DarthMaulcullick
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 11:47 PM
You have a very strong theory I must say, and the Fact that Palp kept trying to relay to Ani that the Jedi were just like the Sith helps inforce your theory that he was using certain points of views to manipulate Ani. I had talked to someone else a while back that Yoda was aware of Qui-Gon back during AOTC whenever you saw Yoda meditating.
Cont...
  DarthMaulcullick
date Posted: Nov 29, 2005 11:56 PM
that possibily Yoda was aware of the plot to destroy the Jedi way before it happened and that is why he waited to tell Obiwan of Qui-Gon spirit due to the fact that he didn't know who would survive the Jedi purge, also the fact that he had a hidden ship on the Wookie planet ready for him, because no matter how much everyone thinks the Sith are sneaky the Jedi are just as sneaky too. But for Palp knowing of Qui-Gon's immortality I just don't think he could be aware of because they are two different sides "The face of the penny can't see the tail no matter how many times you flip it."
  DarthMaulcullick
date Posted: Nov 30, 2005 12:05 AM
If you go into the EU though there was one Sith that did achieve a level of immortality at least until Luke destroyed him Exar-Kun, but of course that is EU and not the original GL stories. There is one question that always pops to mind the Sith always thought inward so why would a Sith want to be able to save lives, but then again look at Ani he became a Sith simply for that reason, kind of a contradiction if you ask me, or was it that how palp sold it to Ani knowing that he would be corrupted with the power. I don't know, I think I'm thinking way to hard, head going too explode. :D
  Ello137
Apocalypse Later
date Posted: Dec 11, 2005 11:53 AM
well, u have a very nice point, but it does seem to be a bit shortsighted. Sidious does love to tell the truth deceptively, but on the flip side, sometimes he straight--out lies
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