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 | Mace vs. Palpatine- Step by Step- What Happened (New and Improved Edited Edition) |
 Mace vs. Palpatine- Step by Step- What Happened
ok... i have read hundreds of blogs and message boards debating this question: Did Mace really overpower Palpatine. I'm here to settle this now once and for all. Now i have seen Episode III 15 times literally and have studied this scene the past 10 times when i watched it and right now I am watching it and pausing at all the parts as we go along. Lets begin step by step.
NOTE: That was back in the summer when i saw it 15 times in theatres... the current count is 23 times (15 times in theatre, 8 times on DVD)
#1 Palpatine easily kills all 3 of the Jedi besides Mace. How? Because of his speed and style. No one has a more offensive style then Palpatine. He uses many jabs and quick attacks.
#2 Palpatine goes on the offensive and Mace must defend against crazy jabs and offensive attacks (a style that none of the previous slain Jedi or Mace have defended against). Score: Palpatine 1, Mace: 0
#3 After a series of attacks and blocks, Mace takes a big full swing at Palpatine. Palpatine ducks and then aims his lightsaber at Mace's chest. Mace left unguarded backs up cautiously with his lightsaber to the side. Score: Palpatine 2, Mace: 0
#4 Palpatine tries to jab at Mace's open body, but Mace blocks it. They Stay there, with sabers locked looking angry. Mace finally blocks down Palpatine's sword and they continue fighting as he continues to back up into the main office. Score: Palpatine 2, Mace: 1
#5 The movie goes back to Anakin landing his ship.
#6 When we come back Palpatine and Mace are now even- neither is on the defensive. Mace and Palpatine have sabers above their head. They clash sabers twice and switch positions. The camera zooms in on Palpatine as he gives an evil sigh while showing teeth (obviously trying to show his evil coming up) Score: Palpatine 2, Mace: 1
#7 The camera zooms out and we see Mace dominating, forcing Palpatine back. Then Palpatine does 2 crazy small flips off of some piece of furniture. The camera zooms in again showing Palpatine's saber close to his body blocking Mace's saber, this time he looks like he is having trouble defending. Score: Palpatine 2, Mace: 2
#8 Mace goes on the offensive (yeah kick his ###). They both block and spin. The glass shatters (who broke it? its hard to see. anyway...)
Score: Palpatine 2, Mace: 2
#9 They switch sides after a blocked hit.
#10 Palpatine does some jabs and Mace blocks them.
#11 They switch sides again. (right now Anakin is walking down the hall)
#12 Finally Mace gains the upper hand by kicking Palpatine, who drops his saber out the shattered window. Score: Palpatine 2, Mace: 3
#13 Palpatine backs up scared while Mace advances. the camera shows Anakin walking into the room.
Now the question is did Palpatine drop his saber on purpose. Here's my two theories. Enjoy:
Theory #1: Palpatine looses his saber on accident. Mace just surprised him and caught him off guard. Palpatine feels Anakin's presence and backs up. Anakin walks in. Palpatine puts on his fake act. Then, seeing/sensing Anakin is not fully convinced what to do he tries to buy himself more time. He shoots electricity at Mace. Mace deflects it back. It makes Palpatine deformed (possibly revealing his true age? we wont get into this now, though). Anakin is now put in a situation where he must choose who to save.
Now listen to this... Palpatine knocks Yoda's lightsaber out of his hand with lightning during their final battle and the first time in his office, Yoda is also not able to absorb the lightning (when he flies into the wall). This shows that Palpatine is strong enough to easily knock a lightsaber out of a hand. So if Anakin didn't come to his rescue... Palpatine would have knocked the lightsaber out of Mace's hand with lightning or killed him with the force.
I believe that if Anakin didn't interfere or if they fought a second time, Palpatine would win. I think that just this one time fate allowed Mace Windu to win so that Anakin would have to choose, thus fulfilling his destiny. See my blog on how he brought balance:
http://blogs.starwars.com/sith-archives66/1
I also believe that Palpatine would have killed Mace with the force if Anakin would not turn. In this event Anakin would strike him down, but it didn't happen like this.
For those of you who still believe he lost on purpose think of this... if Palpatine had to convince Anakin to turn after he arrived, had to buy time by shooting electricity at Mace, and also had to get deformed in the process, would he really take that big of a chance with the possibility that Anakin still might not turn.
Now many of you might be saying "oh, but Palpatine saw the future and knew he would save him," here's my response to you: if Palpatine saw the future of Anakin turning... why did he still shoot electricity at Mace, knowing that he would deflect it back and deform him in the process? Also remember, "always in motion the future is," as yoda once said. I just can't see Palpatine taking that big of a chance. Besides he couldn't see the future of the collapse of his empire and Vader's turn back to the light, so who said he could see whether or not Anakin help him? I mean after all... the SITH ORDER and his LIFE are at stake here!!! I just can't see him taking that big of a risk.
Theory #1 Summary: In conclusion, I believe that Mace caught Palpatine off guard and overpowered him, but Palpatine still could have killed him with the force, but decided not to and let Anakin choose.
Theory #2: Sidious tells Anakin that he is the Sith Lord (seeing that Kenobi has engaged Greivous and knows that he will probably win and then his term in office will be over he has to make his move on Anakin now). in any event Sidious tells Anakin thinking he'll turn (maybe he saw the future that Anakin would turn, but cant see how it will happen.
In any event, because Anakin says he's going to tell the council (little tattle tail) on Palpatine, Palpatine thinks his plan backfired. for the rest of the movie up until Mace and the other Jedi's come into the chancellor's office all cocky, Palpatine is desperately trying to make Anakin come. he is calling him through the force talking to him: "you do know... don't you- if the Jedi destroy me any chance of saving her will be lost..." he never says that to Anakin in the movie before that so don't say Anakin was remembering him saying that. Palpatine is literally talking to Anakin through the force trying in a last desperate attempt (which works) to change Anakin's mind. (for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about I'm talking about when Anakin is in the council room alone, looking out the window, while Padme looks out the window and the Jedi head to the Chancellor's office.) in any event, up until Anakin walks into the building (notice i said building, not the actual office. this is important, keep reading), Palpatine is actually fighting as hard as he can trying to kill Mace since he thinks Anakin betrayed him (after all Anakin actually told the council and then didn't come when Palpatine was calling him).
Then if you look at my step by step above, it says that Anakin enters the building in one of the scenes while Palpatine and mace are still fighting. shortly afterwards Palpatine and mace break the window. then right before mace knocks the lightsaber out of Palpatine hand. Palpatine feels Anakin's presence enter the room and knowing he cant beat mace or convince Anakin (who is still not sure what to do) in a saber duel, he decides to toss the fight and let Anakin decide (plus if Anakin never sees him fighting it helps his "weak old man" theory a little better even if he still is an obvious Sith lord).
Theory #2 Summary: Basically I believe he was trying to kill Mace and the battle was about even until he felt Anakin's presence nearby and then dropped his saber outside the window on purpose and put Anakin in a situation he would have to choose.
I know a lot of this sounds confusing and I have been trying to word it as best I could for the past few days and wait for the right time of day to send it, but I hope I got the message across. Once again as I say all the time this is all speculation and no one has to agree with it. We will never really know unless Lucas himself tells us, which he would never do (he likes us creating these kind of debates). Comments are well appreciated, as are theories. If you would like a more in debt description of this or want to talk about anything star wars, I am open to e-mails as always at littleeagle2032@aol.com. Thank you all for reading this and for posting your comments!
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http://blogs.starwars.com/sith-archives66/9 |

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Darth Sidious [Irv] Star Wars: The Saga (Dissected and with various commentary)
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date Posted: Aug 26, 2005 1:11 PM
I like the play-by-play, good. However, I heartily disagree with your analysis of Palpatine. How would he kill Mace? Shoot lightning at him? No, Mace would reflect that. Try to force push him out the window? Mace could block that. The only reason he didn't in the movie is because he had just got betrayed and had a limb cut off. Mace is very alert at this time and people forget that he is the one with the lightsaber, you can't deny that.
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jedihooplah A whole bunch of hooplah.
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date Posted: Aug 26, 2005 1:20 PM
Good blog. Loved the play-by-play. But I do think focusing on the acutal situation, Mace won. If Anakin hadn't shown up to save Palpatine's ###, Mace would have said a few words, then shoved his saber threw Palps's throat. In the words of Herb Brooks from the movie Miricale "They may beat us 9 games outta 10. But tonight is our night, tonight is that one game." or something like that. What I mean to say is: that it only takes once to kill someone, and that if someone is satitically able to beat you 9 of 10 times, all you need is one time to win. In the words of Han Solo: 'Don't tell me the odds."
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sith_eade James Eade
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date Posted: Aug 26, 2005 1:37 PM
good blogg BUT the bottem line is mace did win. simple. but when palpatine first attacks with lightning i don't think he intends too kill mace because he can feel anakin's presence. Therefore if anakin saw mace struggaling more may not of helped palpatine.Then when anakin cuts off mace's arm then sideouse uses full lightning.So really palpatine wasnt really out of energy or power it was just a show for anakin too turn him. But in saying this i do not say if anakin did not come palpatine would of still killed mace he wouldn't have simple----i agree with what Darth Sidious [lrv] said
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SithLord0017 That's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time.
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date Posted: Aug 26, 2005 7:17 PM
but what would have happenned if Anakin didnt come to his rescue is irrelevant. the question is still did Palpatine loose his saber on purpose. obviously you all believe he lost it on accident. idk if i think he did or not i keep going back and fourth.
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SithLord0017 That's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time.
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date Posted: Aug 26, 2005 7:24 PM
as for darth sidious... maybe he could have used lightning to knock Mace's lightsaber away, like he did to Yoda (as i prob. stated 10 times) and then kill him with the force. anyway here's my opinion of them:
Palpatine- Force: 10, Dueling: 9 / 9.5
Yoda- Force: 9.5, Dueling: 10
Mace- Force: 9, Dueling: 9.5
bottom line i just meant that Palpatine is much more powerful than Mace, but Mace is just a better lightsaber fighter.
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anakinvader128 2 Prophecies? The Jedi Order Theory
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date Posted: Aug 26, 2005 8:28 PM
reply to sithlord0017
palpatine
force-10
dueling-9.5
yoda
force-9.5
dueling-10
mace's force is not that strong
force-7
dueling-9.5
obi-wan
force-8
dueling-8
anakin
force-8
dueling-8
ki-adi mundi
force-7.5
dueling-8
kit fisto
force-7
dueling-7
shaak ti
force-7
dueling-7.5
ME
force-0
dueling-some
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SithLord0017 That's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time.
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date Posted: Aug 26, 2005 8:47 PM
anakinvader128-
ME
force-0
dueling-some
lol. i was thinking about Mace's force. i was gunna put 8 or lower, but i figured i would get a lot of Mace fans b*tching at me, but i agree he isnt that strong (idk if i would say a 7 tho... maybe 7.5)
kit fisto i agree, i would have given ki-adi-mundi a little higher force, and idk who shaak ti is so i couldnt comment on that.
as for obi-wan and anakin i would give obi-wan a force of 9 and a saber of 9 and anakin a force 8 and saber of 9.
overall i agree with you though... especially with how you agreed with yoda being a better dueler, but a worse force user than palpatine.
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jedipilot88 Darth Legant's blog
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date Posted: Aug 27, 2005 5:16 PM
that was amazing u back up everything u say. I never saw this the way u point it out. Maybe that bc you've seen it 15 times, that so crazy. I totally agree with it all too
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SithLord0017 That's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time.
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date Posted: Aug 27, 2005 5:23 PM
lol. i know. me, my bro, and my friend are like the biggest star wars fans in our town, if not in the state. my friend has seen it 9 times and my bro has seen it 7 times. They are always trying to compete, but the know they cant. i go alone with my friend and then alone with my bro so they can never catch up.
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darthjimenez7 Just Me And The Sith
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date Posted: Aug 27, 2005 10:14 PM
i saw that you read my blog and i just read yours and i like it very much. i like your and anakinvader128 force/duling "information" and i agree with the
palpatine
force-10
dueling-9.5
yoda
force-9.5
dueling-10
mace's force is not that strong
force-7
dueling-9.5
If you want to email me about my blog here is my email adress
darthjimenez@gmail.com
P.S. I saw ROTS 5 times
Long Live The Sith!!!!!!! ![]:)](http://blogs.starwars.com/share/img/emoticons/devil.gif)
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Sith_Lord_Duji
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date Posted: Aug 28, 2005 1:26 AM
No no no, Mace was about to whoop Palpatine because palpatines using all his force doing lightning while Palpatine was getting weakened and more weakened. Plus the force also has a limit (If you use alot it will take awhile to come back. It all deppends on how powerful with the force you are.) So Mace could have won Palpatine 1 vs 1.
Mace is the best swordsman in the jedi council but you dont want to compare him with Yoda.
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SithLord0017 That's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time.
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date Posted: Aug 28, 2005 11:32 AM
force having a limit- false. this is just stated in games so you cant slaughter everyone. the game has to put a limit on it so its not too easy. if it ever says nething in books about that, its bs cuz the books are EU and should not be counted. anyway... thanks for commenting.
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Sith_Lord_Duji
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date Posted: Aug 28, 2005 4:26 PM
hmm lol ok thanks for telling me this.. Thats too bad u cant slaughter everyone in jedi games :P
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darksteeldemon
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date Posted: Aug 30, 2005 11:33 AM
palps faked it, he knew anakin would come and therefore save him....if he knew anakin wouldn't come he would have told him he was a sith lord, had the jedi come wihout lightsabers ignited, and he would have killed them all with his ataru style.
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obi jon kenobi8
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date Posted: Sep 01, 2005 1:46 PM
but none of you are as lucky as me! my mother works at the cinema, so I can watch movies free and how times I want!  BUT mace windu is a better swordsman than yoda......oh yeah 
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Darth Kevinmhk
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date Posted: Sep 13, 2005 8:39 PM
I disagree. I dont know whether you have read Novel version and Young Reader version or not. Anyway let me speak my points:
In novel, the fight between Mace and Sidious is much better than just slash and slab, Sidious moves in a blur and Mace's saber "appears everywhere"
In novel, Mace's Vaapad block and deflect most of Sidious' attack
In novel, Anakin was there earlier to witness Sidious' motion in a blur
In young reader, Yoda fake his weak when he flies across the room after being hit by lightning
In any version, Yoda is strong enough to blow up the lightning charge during the last confrontation
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Darth Kevinmhk
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date Posted: Sep 13, 2005 8:40 PM
My point of view is Yoda get flying across and lose his saber has a lot to do with his physical size and strength. Both are supreme masters, so size does matter this time
My conclusion to this issue (as always) : Mace defeated Sidious in saber duel, Sidious then threw the fight after the first round of Force Lightning
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jcat355b
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date Posted: Sep 16, 2005 12:15 PM
tHAT IS A GREAT BLOGS, But listen my friends that is palp's true form he is a living inbodynemt of the darkside which take its tool onthe human body, Palps staged everything to turn Anakin. Come on he can see the future and the dark side clouds the Jedi's ability to see the future. Palps could have very easily defeated Mace. Even with that strange form that he studys
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Darth Kevinmhk
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date Posted: Sep 16, 2005 11:40 PM
Like Mara Jade said, he cant even see his own death
He cant see everything
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Darth Kevinmhk
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date Posted: Sep 18, 2005 12:06 AM
SithLord0017:
I dont know you base your point on the movie alone,
or if you allow EU material to enter the debate.
Anyway according to the novel, Palpatine 100% expected,
knew, and felt the approach of the Jedi arrest team, even
when they were still on the gunship.
Palpatine took his lightsaber from the statue to prepare for a duel.
Palpatine could sense the struggle in Anakin inside the Council Chamber,
but i dont think he reach out and ask Anakin to come. That was Anakin's
reflection in his heart, and Anakin come to chancellor office by his own
free will.
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Darth Kevinmhk
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date Posted: Sep 18, 2005 12:10 AM
(contineud)
SithLord0017, at the begining i think Palpatine threw the fight by acting weak after the first round of lightning, but this morning after reading the novel in detail again, i change my view.
Palpatine did throw the lightsaber duel as well at some point!
You post a step-by-step duel between Mace and Sidious on big screen,
i post a step-by-step between them in the novel, check darthjimenez7's blog:
http://blogs.starwars.com/1083/1/comments
Now combining the novel and the on screen scene, I think Sidious threw
the fight after Windu broke the window, he then encourage Windu to kill
him by lightning (thus forcing Ani to choose), and again threw the fight by
acting weak after the first round of lightning
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SithLord0017 That's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time.
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date Posted: Sep 18, 2005 9:21 AM
i base it off of movies only. i hate EU. lol. some of it is ok (such as Ep. III novel, things that help back up and support things in the movie), but i dont know much about the EU pre-trilogy and try to stay away from EU in my theories as much as possible.
as for what you said about Palpatine throwing the fight after the window broke, i agree. i think he was actually trying to kill Mace during the whole fight until the end when he throw his saber out of the window. i believe he was trying to kill Mace, but once he felt Anakin's prescence getting closer to the office, he decided there was still a chance of converting him and decided to put Anakin in a position where he would have to choose.
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SithLord0017 That's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time.
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date Posted: Sep 18, 2005 9:23 AM
basically i believe he was trying to kill mace until he felt anakin's prescence nearby and then dropped his saber outside the window on purpose and put anakin in a situation he would have to choose.
as for ur step by step of the novel... i'll have to check it out when i get the chance. i'll respond to it and also respond here.
p.s. thats pretty kool what you said about sidious taking the saber out ahead of time from the statue. which statue did he take it out of though?
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SithLord0017 That's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time.
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date Posted: Sep 18, 2005 9:32 AM
ok i just read ur blog Darth Kevinmhk, and realized i was the first to comment a month ago. lol. and i was gunna comment again, but it is closed so i'll just post it here:
that really supports the theory that he knew all along about Anakin coming and stuff, but it is also contradicted because he never foresaw anakin turning on him or the Rebels winning the war.
i think that one of our theories is correct, but we'll never really know since there is evidence against and for both theories. for now on i will preach my Mace theory as two parts: this theory in this blog and yours.
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SithLord0017 That's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time.
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date Posted: Sep 18, 2005 9:34 AM
thanks for commenting here and for sharing your theory!
p.s. what statue does palps get his saber from? and does anyone know what the sculptures and statues and paintings mean? (obviously they are sith artifacts and prob. from the sith wars, but does anyone know anything specific such as names or places???)
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Darth Kevinmhk
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date Posted: Sep 18, 2005 9:48 AM
thz for reading SithLord0017, first that was not my blog,
it was darthjimenez7's
According to the novel, Sidious expected Anakin would come with his
tactical mind, not with forseeing ability; he felt the masters and Ani
approached when they are in fact approaching, just like Jedi sensing
incoming blaster blots from the back. Here Sidious had a large radius of
sensing person, but no forseeing ability was involved (i think).
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Darth Kevinmhk
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date Posted: Sep 18, 2005 9:54 AM
for the statue:
It was a sculpture made by neuranium, which is a gd material blocking sensor wave,
Sidious brought it to Coruscant when he became senator of Naboo.
the center of the sculpture is an empty space, hiding his lightsaber for years.
Sidious used the Force to activated it when the Jedi Masters are
coming in the gunship. The activated lightsaber burn its way out of
the sculpture with its crimson blade. Sidious then hide it in his sleeve.
the appearance / origin / meaning of the sculpture was not mentioned
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SithLord0017 That's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time.
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date Posted: Sep 18, 2005 10:32 AM
lol ooo i guess i just read about check out the blog and saw the link and clicked. lol didnt see that u sed it was not urs.
thats kool about the statue. what does neuranuim and gd mean and what does blocking sensor waves do? wish they said which one it was and gave some info about it, but oh well.
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Darth Kevinmhk
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date Posted: Sep 18, 2005 9:55 PM
neuranuim... umm... an element exists only in Star Wars universe?
some kind of metal?
gd = good
neuranuim block the sensor waves so that when Republic Intelligence
was doing counter-intelligent check inside his office, no one could
find out that a lightsaber is hidden in the statue.
by the way darthjimenez7 starts a new blog to continue Mace VS Palpatine's
debate, check it out!
http://blogs.starwars.com/1083/8
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SithLord0017 That's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time.
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date Posted: Sep 19, 2005 12:18 PM
lol i wasnt sure if gd was an abbreviation for sumthing or if it was just a lazy way of saying good. always good to learn lazier tricks. haha. thats kool about the sensor wave being blocked (i didnt even know the rep. did counter-intelligence checks in his office to begin with), but wouldnt they see all the Sith artifacts he has? I read sumwhere and my bro. told me that where all his sith artifacts are (where he tells Anakin hes a sith lord and also where mace comes into to arrest him) is his private quarters and that no one has ever been back there unless given specific permission from him (like he did to anakin) or unless hes being arrested.
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jedipilot88 Darth Legant's blog
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date Posted: Dec 31, 2005 1:32 PM
Hey Love the play-by-play and the secomd theory is great you really did your homework on this one.
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